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Help with abutment gutter


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Just finishing this part of the build off, trying to get it done before winter comes. Got a retired brickkie round to do a few mornings but he’s not sure how to finish this section of utility. 

We have an abutment gutter running into the house wall which we think is going to be made of lead, but not sure how to finish the part where the brick and block gable is. The only help we have had is this picture from the architect.

Also added a couple of pics too, any help would be much appreciated.

Regards. James

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Its probably time to get a lead worker to visit and tell you what he needs.

 

You need that triangular bit of wood to support the bottom of the gutter. Should slope towards the downpipe. Where is/are the down pipes going? Typically the lead gutter extends over or through the wall and into a hopper at the top of the down pipe. If there is a down pipe at one end only the other end needs a bit of wall to hide and form the end of the gutter.

 

So your first picture appears to be right assuming there is no down pipe at the near end. A small capping stone could be added after the leadwork is done. If there IS going to be a down pipe this end then he may have gone a bit too high. I'd probably stop the wall at the bottom of the lead gutter level so the gutter goes out over it. 

 

This is a rather grand version showing gutter coming through hole in wall. Best one I could find in a hurry.

 

image.png.49ed931b036d19befc16e1034017d486.png

 

 

 

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I Googled "box parapet gutter section". Then clicked on "Images". Got a lot more section details than "abutment gutter section", tbh very similar. (Instead of a parapet you have a gable end). Main things seems to be having a fall created by packers. The flashing needs to go up the wall by 150mm then tuck in an angled slit. Interesting some use a sheet of EPDM instead of lead. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=box+parapet+gutter+section&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwia5LfytYvtAhVBYxoKHWDjDv4Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=box+parapet+gutter+section&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoCCAA6BggAEAcQHjoECAAQDToECB4QClDnzQFY7v8BYP-HAmgAcAB4AIABtAGIAbcXkgEEMC4yMJgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=KLm0X5qwLcHGaeDGu_AP&bih=512&biw=360&client=ms-android-motorola&prmd=isvn

 

Interesting comment here ref the exit, how the front edge projects and is always lower than the sides:

 

https://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/rainwater/rainwater.htm

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I’ve looked at the cross sectional drawings, we’ve got the roofer coming round Friday to have a look at what we’ve got. 
 

The Bricky has been round today and this is how it currently looks until we’re sure how to finish it. 
I’m assuming we just need to create a fall from the far end parapet wall, to this end where it will meet the front gutter. Whilst having 150mm lead flashing up stand.

 


 

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Needs a fall, I would want to see min 1:30, I like lead and it will need to be code 6 min, this determines the lengths of the bays. I would say it looks too narrow and too flat, mun exit width 180mm , this plus the min fall and steps at 50mm will mean it it gets quite wide 

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17 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I would be doing that in GRP with a Lead cloak flashing. 

 

So two layers of defence? Do the GRP detail well which should stand on it's own. The lead for aesthetics and as a practical drain on top?

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2 hours ago, joe90 said:

No, the GRP forms the “gutter” , the lead cloaking slid into the wall and dressed over the vertical GRP part (I think????). On the slope part the felt and tiles go over the GRP. 


Wot he said ..!!

 

Two layers of 9mm OSB on the base/slope and one layer screwed and bonded to the wall to make the channel. 45 degree fillet in the bottom of the channel and laid up with at least two layers of 450gm CSM, same as a GRP roof. Then cut and fold a lead flashing over the top edge of the wall side to finish. 

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Do you actually have a cavity tray in the wall as per the drawing? If not then given that this area is hidden I'd go up three courses of bricks instead of two. It doesnt have to be a uniform 150mm it can be greater at the low end of the gutter.

 

I suspect the roof/lead man will make a hopper where the existing downpipe is and have the top part of the down pipe discharge into it. I would consider replacing the lower part of the downpipe with a 110mm pipe to reduce chances of blocking. Discuss with him first though.

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I have a similar setup in a scheme I am about to start.  GRP is the favourite solution.  If you do it in lead you need welts to join the lengths together and they will trap the water.  Just use the lead for the vertical wall.  You may need to introduce a hopper on the downpipe or take the lead round the corner a bit and drain into the gutter lower down - when it is there.

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On one of my first houses I did a GRP valley (as I could not afford the lead!) GRP was unheard of as a roofing solution back then but I had built a canoe out of the stuff years before and got on well with it. I fashioned a spout out of old lead and continued the GRP over it. Added an old cast iron hopper to the downpipe and it Looked really good.

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Roofers been round and he agrees with the GRP route, we’re going to leave it all to him. We do want some lead so probably the up-stand and hopefully lead coming round the front part if it needs to be on show, not sure how it’s going to look yet. You mention the weep holes as per drawing, your right no you can’t see them because the stupid bricky has put them below the roof line, so we’re just going to grind them back and fill them in, not sure if this is right but it’s a little late now.

Thanks for all your help.

Regards. James

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  • 3 months later...
On 19/11/2020 at 08:42, Mr Punter said:

I have a similar setup in a scheme I am about to start.  GRP is the favourite solution.  If you do it in lead you need welts to join the lengths together and they will trap the water.  Just use the lead for the vertical wall.  You may need to introduce a hopper on the downpipe or take the lead round the corner a bit and drain into the gutter lower down - when it is there.

Did you complete this job? do you have any pics?

Well can't seem to get hold of the roofer, after I told him I was going to complete the tiling and only wanted him to do the grp section.so looks like I'm going to give this a go myself, I have a few pics of were I'm up to and before I go any further id like some advice. Can I use the wall trim in pic 1 as won't be much expansion and contraction?

Is there any tips for pic 2 going up the roof ,was just going to run osb and grp it as high as i can get, or should there be a trim? 

In my very first post there is a gable pic where the verge tile will run into a parapet coping stone, similar to pic 3 what will be the best way to waterproof that section?

i would also like to ask, I don't want the grp showing unless necessary, can i finish of in lead and how's it best to go from  the grp to lead ?

Sorry for all the questions 

  Regards  James

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Hi @James1994.

 

We have not even started construction so I am afraid I can't be much help.  We did a bit of demolition to find out what was what, then had to do some redesign.  Not got pre-start conditions or building regs approval yet.

 

Also, I was going to do the gutter with some flat roof on another part in the same material but building control wanted BROOF(t4), which is a fire resistance standard and I am not sure is GRP will comply.

 

We will be doing similar to your abutment gutter detail.  I am not sure how we will do the outlets at the ends.  Probably leadwork into a hopper.  We will get a roofing contractor to do the job.

 

Your flat roof looks nice and neat.  Hopefully you have some OK weather for the GRP.  Can you post up some pictures of progress?

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Hi Mr Punter 

Thanks for the reply, sorry to cause confusion but the flat roof is only a picture I got off the internet, I was using this as an example as I need to know the best way of approaching that section.

Our project is the small abutment section, would love to hear from anyone Who has done similar in past.

Regards. James

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sorry to revive thread but need some advice on the best way of bringing lead round from the abutment side the the tiled area. See picture, not sure if we need someone to weld this section or if we can maybe use a large enough piece and form it to a waterproof shape.

 Regards. James

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