Clean stone for drainage - what are you paying per tonne? And should I avoid limestone?

[Oxbow16]

Hi all

I've got various land drainage projects I'll be starting soon... The going price for clean drainage stone here in South Wales is £37 per bulk bag / tonne. I wondered what kind of prices other people are paying? I've read in other forums people paying a lot less than that, but maybe it has gone up in recent years?

Also, many of the drainage websites advise against the use of limestone for drainage because it is porous and isn't inert. One site says: "Limestone can precipitate calcium carbonate in wet conditions, depositing minerals that can clog up the drain." At the same time other sites say it IS good for drainage. In fact, this one lists a whole bunch of uses for it:

https://www.stamfordstone.co.uk/2018/08/09/limestone-aggregate/

And it seems to be all that is available around here from the aggregate suppliers, so I'm guessing a lot of people are using it.

I wondered what you guys think?

Cheers

Edited November 2, 2020 by Oxbow16

[Dave Jones]

10mm gravel 15/ton based on an 8 wheeler 20ton load.

 

Those bulk bags are rarely a ton 800kg

Edited November 2, 2020 by Dave Jones

[Conor]

12mm clean stone £12/tonne delivered in bulk (16t or 30t lorry) or £10/tonne collected at quarry. We'll be needing about 40 tonnes to backfill our basement. Co. Down, Northern Ireland.

 

Definitely ring round a few local quarries and ask for prices based on 16t delivery.

[Oz07]

Recycled crush concrete 10mm clean £10 per tonne collected loose

[Dave Jones]

if we are talking pipe bedding the recylced stuff isnt any good, if your talking french drains then no prob!

[Oz07]

does the job for me what's wrong with it

[Oz07]

(recycled concrete)

[Dave Jones]

guess it if its screened to get all the sharp, wire, crap thats in recycled out of it. Never had that much luck on our builds. Great for road construction though!

[Oz07]

I know what you mean some cam be crap. We have a really good place local though and their pipe bedding is clean as you like. I think they've got some of the best screeners in the country. AR aggregates / demolition

[Russell griffiths]

£240 for 10 tonne loads delivered, that’s in an eye watering expensive part of the country, even though it comes out of a hole 10 minutes from my site. 12mm 20mm 40mm clean stone. 

[Oxbow16]

Thanks for all the replies. 

 

Well, I guess I need to call more and perhaps call further afield.  I thought delivery would be the crippler, so I kept to local.  AND it's good to support local business.  But of the four I called, £37 inclusive was the cheapest.  Hmmm...

[PeterW]

£37 can’t be the loose price is it ..?? £17/t for 10 tonne and £15.80/t for 20 tonne currently. £34 for bags 

[Temp]

3 hours ago, Oxbow16 said:

One site says: "Limestone can precipitate calcium carbonate in wet conditions, depositing minerals that can clog up the drain." At the same time other sites say it IS good for drainage. In fact, this one lists a whole bunch of uses for it:

 

We used limestone hardcore as a temporary driveway and it developed a sticky layer that filled in the holes between the stones. That then set up like cement. Unfortunately  we had a planning condition that required a porus driveway and the planning officer pointed out that Limestone MOT wasn't considered porus.

 

I guess washed limestone might be ok but i think I'd avoid it..

[Oxbow16]

@Temp - that's both interesting and worrying to hear, not least of all as it seems that's all that's available locally.  Strange question perhaps, but you don't have any photos of the problem you had and/or the limestone used by any chance?  

 

@PeterW - The cheapest guy is the same price loose or bagged.  Maybe because he is just a few miles away??  Next cheapest was loose.  Another loose delivery quoted over £50 p/ton!

[Miek]

In in South west Wales

40mm clean limestone is about £18/ton delivered. Assumes a 16t load. 

 

That's what the locals use for land drain round this way. 

 

Pea shingle is £25/t

 

[Oxbow16]

Hi Miek

 

Can you recommend any suppliers?  I'm in Carmthenshire too...  

 

Yes, I presumed that's what everyone must be using as that seems to be all you can get locally.  Which also makes me think it must be suitable.  But then why are so many people saying to avoid limestone I wonder???  

 

Confusing.

 

Thanks for your reply

[Dave Jones]

The large skip hire places normally screen rubble or if they dont tell you who they take their rubble to.

 

I think problem with limestone sometimes it comes very dusty which has the effect of locking it all together like conc when wet and compacted.

[Russell griffiths]

Simple don’t buy it in bulk bags, you don’t want a price per tonne, you want a price per truckload. 

Phone the quarry direct. 

[Oxbow16]

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

I think problem with limestone sometimes it comes very dusty which has the effect of locking it all together like conc when wet and compacted.

 

That's interesting and might explain why the views on it are so different.  I see that it is used on the side of roads, railway embankments, and places like that.  Actually, I think our driveway is limestone and that seems fine.  I can't imagine all the farmers across Wales and other areas who use limestone have ended up with solid land drains...

 

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Simple don’t buy it in bulk bags, you don’t want a price per tonne, you want a price per truckload. 

Phone the quarry direct. 

 

Good thinking.  Don't know why but it hadn't crossed my mind to go direct.  I guess I imagined they didn't sell to end users and only to the middlemen who sell it on, like with so many other things in the building trade and beyond.  The one problem might be access.  We are on a narrow(ish) country lane and I'm not sure they'd have enough swing to be able to back into our driveway.  

 

12 hours ago, Miek said:

In in South west Wales

40mm clean limestone is about £18/ton delivered. Assumes a 16t load. 

That's what the locals use for land drain round this way. 

 

If you get a moment and are happy to, would be handy to hear of any recommended suppliers in the area.  I'm pleased to hear that's what the locals use and gives me more confidence to use it myself after reading all of the "avoid it" advice.  

 

Thanks everyone for all the help.

[Oxbow16]

Well, I took delivery of some limestone today.  Just enough to do a more urgent drainage job.  The bulk of the work I'll be doing in the spring...  

 

I'm not too sure whether the stuff received today should be classed as clean stone or not...  But I'll start another thread on that if that's ok, rather than go too far off topic on this one.  

 

Here's a link to it though for future reference:

 

 

[Dave Jones]

probably be ok, its when its is the trench and all the dust is washed to bottom and sets hard. 10mm gravel is better just depends what you have close to you. wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Temp]

17 hours ago, Oxbow16 said:

@Temp - that's both interesting and worrying to hear, not least of all as it seems that's all that's available locally.  Strange question perhaps, but you don't have any photos of the problem you had and/or the limestone used by any chance?  

 

I don't think I have a photo but the stuff was yellowish rock covered in slightly sticky dust. Once laid and driven on the top layer compacted to form a very hard layer that was a bit slick when wet. 

 

If I remember correctly MOT 3 is meant to be permeable and the regular MOT 1 can be but isn't necessarily permeable.

[Temp]

Ignore the prices but Mick George have two versions of limestone on their web site with photos..

https://www.mickgeorge.co.uk/50mm-down-limestone.html?tax_display=2&gclid=CjwKCAiAnIT9BRAmEiwANaoE1RdOnbQN0HDdkNj2Rc4FU4pjbNnlM3uofChsbIDzQpEZLz-MzL9eXhoC9gYQAvD_BwE

And

https://www.mickgeorge.co.uk/50mm-clean-limestone.html?tax_display=2&gclid=CjwKCAiAnIT9BRAmEiwANaoE1SsBsKxcggt5zHzC1EGAXsQulvL_7okY5eMMW7KtYcxCH8_vw1WqrhoCk0gQAvD_BwE

 

Think ours was somewhere between the two in terms of dust.

[Oxbow16]

I did some ringing around today and the prices haven't got much better at all, in fact some were higher.  That includes direct delivery from quarries.  Maybe it's because I'm right out in the sticks (I need it delivered).  I was asking for quotes for 30T and tipped, not bagged.  If it's not my location, then I'm not sure where I'm going wrong or why the prices are so high.  I have got a couple more to try though so am holding out hope.

 

Limestone.  A lot of the suppliers/quarries only had limestone and said it would be fine for drainage, albeit one saying for 20 years or so, and another for around 30 years.  There was one though who had limestone but other options too.  He said prior to his current job he worked in drainage for decades and would definitely NOT use limestone.  Apparently, on some occasions he was called out years later to jobs they had done using limestone where the stone had pretty much disintegrated and/or consolidated and the drains had failed completely.  That is in line with the other stuff I've read warning against its use.  As above, maybe using it covered in the dust etc makes it bad and washed is more effective?  Who knows!  

 

I had some delivered today and will use it for a land drain that is less needed than some of the others I have planned.  For those - which I'll be starting on next year - I'm hoping to find an alternative.  

 

10 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

probably be ok, its when its is the trench and all the dust is washed to bottom and sets hard. 

 

That's what worries me about it tbh.  I'll be using a geotextile, so it would all sit in the bottom of that which is far from ideal.  Plus, it could end up solidify around the perforations in the pipe.  

 

@Temp - thanks for sharing that, much appreciated.  

 

And thanks to everyone else for the replies and help.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Oxbow16

[Dave Jones]

how many meters of drains you have to do ?