LSB Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I want to use an ASHP, but I've just read today that the RHI stops at the end of March next year and I won't be ready for it by then. Can I go ahead and order one and still get the incentive? Otherwise, I think it's back to an oil boiler (no gas)as not cost effective without RHI Anyone else hit this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Just now, LSB said: I want to use an ASHP, but I've just read today that the RHI stops at the end of March next year and I won't be ready for it by then. Can I go ahead and order one and still get the incentive? Otherwise, I think it's back to an oil boiler (no gas)as not cost effective without RHI Anyone else hit this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macglo Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 You can create and save an application for upto 3 months before submitting. So you might get round it that way. probably depends if they accept the commissioning date . They were quite helpful when I rang them for advice though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 You may find it cheaper overall to not use the MCS/RHI route. Have you done the costings yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 What makes you think you can buy an oil boiler cheaper than ASHP dont go by the inflated prices you have had from ASHP installers, the cost is ramped up because they know you will get a rebate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 You can self install an ASHP. By the time you’ve added up boiler, oil tank etc you will be borderline the same price as a mid range ASHP before installation. RHI just inflates the install costs as others have said. I’ve seen £3500 ASHP listed as £7995 “installed” and it’s a 2 day job - or £2000/day to the installer !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 qq on this. would the ASHP have to be commissioned by the end date to obtain the RHI or does it just have to be installed? i.e. does it have to be fully functional in a finished house by March 2021? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, PeterW said: You can self install an ASHP. By the time you’ve added up boiler, oil tank etc you will be borderline the same price as a mid range ASHP before installation. RHI just inflates the install costs as others have said. I’ve seen £3500 ASHP listed as £7995 “installed” and it’s a 2 day job - or £2000/day to the installer !! that's interesting, I didn't realise you could self install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, LSB said: that's interesting, I didn't realise you could self install. You can make it even cheaper to self install if you use a vented DHW system, none of that G3 nonsense. And the kit is cheaper as well, which annoys plumbers as they cannot add on such a large mark up. https://www.gledhill.net/master-pressure-get-g3-qualified/ Edited October 30, 2020 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 as the wall which we planned to put the ASHP on won't be built by Mar can we build a small wall and the boundary and attach the ASHP to that, without connecting to the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 In NI when they closed the rhi scheme you had to have it installed and commissioned and the paperwork into them by the shut of date. Some installers where working round the clock to beat the deadline. Just phone them up and ask what will they accept. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Declan52 said: Just phone them up and ask what will they accept. They will probably come and arrest you for attempting an RHI fraud. The NIs and Spanish are the world leaders at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: They will probably come and arrest you for attempting an RHI fraud. The NIs and Spanish are the world leaders at this. I have someone doing a quote for me, I will ask them first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 It is commissioning date and you also need an as built EPC to claim RHI. TBH once the schemes close it will be like solar panels when FIT was 42p and the system cost £12k. Same systems installed these days can be change of £5k. Any of the “green” initiatives will go this way and you will find prices falling early next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, PeterW said: It is commissioning date and you also need an as built EPC to claim RHI. TBH once the schemes close it will be like solar panels when FIT was 42p and the system cost £12k. Same systems installed these days can be change of £5k. Any of the “green” initiatives will go this way and you will find prices falling early next year. right, well that's really good news and worth knowing as realistically, as we are DIYer's, we won't need it until 22 so sounds like I'm best to wait. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 hours ago, SteamyTea said: You can make it even cheaper to self install if you use a vented DHW system, none of that G3 nonsense. And the kit is cheaper as well, which annoys plumbers as they cannot add on such a large mark up. https://www.gledhill.net/master-pressure-get-g3-qualified/ Don’t forget the big plastic storage tank that you’ll need in the attic to give you any kind of “reasonable” hot water pressure. Then the grief of getting mixer taps / showers etc that can deal with mixed ( unbalanced ) hot and cold supplies........ Then adding noisy pumps and complex plumbing arrangements to suit if you want a nice powerful shower....... C’mon grandad, it’s almost 2021!! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Don’t forget the big plastic storage tank that you’ll need in the attic to give you any kind of “reasonable” hot water pressure. Then the grief of getting mixer taps / showers etc that can deal with mixed ( unbalanced ) hot and cold supplies........ Then adding noisy pumps and complex plumbing arrangements to suit if you want a nice powerful shower....... C’mon grandad, it’s almost 2021 Yes, I do remember fitting a pump (still working) and a mixer tap (gives no problems), to my existing system over a decade ago. Oh and when I had to change my 32 year old cylinder, it was £220 (from your helpful mate) and I got quite a few quid back on the old one. KISS, it is the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Yes, I do remember fitting a pump (still working) and a mixer tap (gives no problems), to my existing system over a decade ago. Oh and when I had to change my 32 year old cylinder, it was £220 (from your helpful mate) and I got quite a few quid back on the old one. KISS, it is the only way. I’ll learn you good, just you wait and see ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 If you don't want the G3 hassle then you go the thermal store way to get mains pressure hot water but an ASHP will not get a thermal store hot enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, LSB said: I want to use an ASHP, but I've just read today that the RHI stops at the end of March next year and I won't be ready for it by then. Can I go ahead and order one and still get the incentive? Otherwise, I think it's back to an oil boiler (no gas)as not cost effective without RHI Anyone else hit this. We would but I read here -> https://www.edie.net/news/11/Government-planning-to-replace-RHI-with-Clean-Heat-Grant/ that in the budget it was extended to 2022. If not, then we'll have and ASHP in a field!!! EDIT: Here's the official notice -> https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-support-for-low-carbon-heat PHEW!! Simon Edited October 30, 2020 by Bramco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Bramco said: We would but I read here -> https://www.edie.net/news/11/Government-planning-to-replace-RHI-with-Clean-Heat-Grant/ that in the budget it was extended to 2022. If not, then we'll have and ASHP in a field!!! EDIT: Here's the official notice -> https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-support-for-low-carbon-heat PHEW!! Simon and yet, it was this months HomeBuilding & Renovating Magazine that said Mar 2021. I would have expected better from an 'expert' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 hours ago, PeterW said: If you don't want the G3 hassle then you go the thermal store way to get mains pressure hot water but an ASHP will not get a thermal store hot enough. I genuinely do not under stand why they will not get 'hot enough', because of the type of cylinder/store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 you draw from a hot tank at whatever temp the tank is at. With a TS it's a heat exchanger and the flow temp will be lower than the stored temp. you need sufficient overhead to cover this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, dpmiller said: you need sufficient overhead to cover this... That is just sizing correctly isn't it. My cylinder is 200lt, heated to about 40°C. If I did the same with a 50lt cylinder, I would run out of hot water while filling a bath. Just sizing really, not temperature as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 almost... as others have pointed out in the past, the store temp of a TS drops as you draw off, so it's hard to say what capacity you actually have. With a normal cylinder, if it's all hot, it all comes out hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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