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Ferdinand

Kevin McCloud 8% Investment Bond

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Just a heads up for people looking to invest money.

 

Kevin McCloud's company HAB have a 5 year investment bond open at 8% AER at present.

 

Usual caveats ... capital at risk, not covered by protections cheme etc.

 

Here:

https://www.habhousing.co.uk/news/initial-crowd-fund-target-smashed-in-4-days

 

Ferdinand

Edited by Ferdinand

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Perhaps I'm wrong but 8% sounds high for a property backed loan. Couldn't he borrow at lower rates from a bank? 

Edited by Temp

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Possibly, but this way they only pay out at the end, so if inflation rises, then it may be cheaper.

Without looking into it more, and I cannot be bothered, is it offering 8% a year, or 8% on your total investment after 5 years (1.6% before compounding)?

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8% per year tail loaded..

 

https://www.codeinvesting.com/investment-opportunity/?cbid=HABLand

 

By way of example, a UK Basic Rate tax payer, investing £10,000 on or before 15 February 2017 and holding investment for 5 years would receive gross interest at each of the ends of years 1 and 2 of £700, on which £140 tax would be due. She would receive gross interest at each of the ends of years 3 and 4 of £800, on which £160 tax would be due.

 

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AER= ANNUAL Equivalent rate, so they are expecting 8% each year or 40% over the term (not allowing for compounding)

 

Why am I suspicious of this?  Icelandic bank anyone?
 

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Guest Alphonsox

Saving money with icelandic banks turned out to be entirely risk free thanks to the UK taxpayer. I would be a lot less sure of this.

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3 hours ago, Temp said:

Perhaps I'm wrong but 8% sounds high for a property backed loan. Couldn't he borrow at lower rates from a bank? 

 

I do not think it is property backed.

 

It is finance for land acquisition and upfront  expenses.

 

Not sure if it is a good return, however they have something of a track record and no scandals related to the previous cash raising they did in 2013 afaik.

 

It is not clear whether this comes within your £1000 tax free allowance for interest.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited by Ferdinand

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, newhome said:

 

This is the Guardian headline:

 

Quote

Investors in Kevin McCloud's projects told they face huge losses

 

And this is standfirst and the 2 key paras of the article:

 

Quote

Small investors who sank millions of pounds into the TV property guru Kevin McCloud’s eco-friendly housing ventures have been told they could face losing up to 97% of their money.

 

.....

 

McCloud has repeatedly turned to the public to help fund a series of eco-friendly developments. In 2013, HAB Housing reportedly broke the then world record for crowdfunded investment with 650 people putting in £1.9m. Then came the January 2017 mini-bond scheme, which raised £2.4m for HAB Land. Later that year, McCloud announced that he was looking to raise up to £50m through another bond for private investors.

 

During the past few days, the January 2017 bond investors have received a letter from HAB Land Finance which stated that “after final completion of the projects at both Kings Worthy and Cumnor Hill [in Oxford], the net return available to bondholders would be expected to range from £606,000 (best case) to £69,000 (worse case) which, in each case, is equivalent to 26 pence and 3 pence for every £1 of bond monies invested”. So they would either lose 74% in the best case, or 97% in the worst case. As a result the company has proposed a restructuring of the bonds whereby investors would not see any of their cash back until 2024 at the earliest.

 

Can one of our financial gurus confirm that a "net return" of a bond incorporates the value of the original capital, so that these returns are indeed all that is left? There seem to be several definitions of "net return" around.

 

Cheers


F

Edited by Ferdinand

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Isn't Net Return what you get back after all gains, losses, costs etc are calculated.

So it does include your original investment.

Think it is usually called Total Return.

I think these would be a B on the credit quality rating.

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Posted (edited)

Net return is after deduction of costs, commissions and usually taxes. It would normally be used to refer to net return on capital, so excluding the repayment of principal. In this case, I agree with @SteamyTea's interpretation that to me this really looks like total return such that not all the principal would be repaid. Parts of the HAB Mini Bond page on the debt platform seems to imply in a couple of places that 100% of the principal would be returned, but to be fair there is also a warning that there is no guarantee of this.

 

The FCA has a page on mini bonds https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/mini-bonds.

 

Not something I would go for - the higher headline (unguaranteed) return reflects the higher risk.

Edited by MrSniff

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I am glad I did not bet my pension or house build fund on this scheme then.

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6 hours ago, MrSniff said:

Net return is after deduction of costs, commissions and usually taxes. It would normally be used to refer to net return on capital, so excluding the repayment of principal. In this case, I agree with @SteamyTea's interpretation that to me this really looks like total return such that not all the principal would be repaid. Parts of the HAB Mini Bond page on the debt platform seems to imply in a couple of places that 100% of the principal would be returned, but to be fair there is also a warning that there is no guarantee of this.

 

The FCA has a page on mini bonds https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/mini-bonds.

 

Not something I would go for - the higher headline (unguaranteed) return reflects the higher risk.

 

From the Observer:

 

Investors in both the equity crowdfunding scheme and the mini-bond are now expected to take large losses due to the company running into significant trouble. Losses for investors are expected to be between 74% and 97% of the principal amount invested.

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Loosing that large a percentage on a property investment takes some doing. Especially in the housing market. All becomes clear when you realise the money was invested in a house building company not houses directly. 

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Posted (edited)

+1

 

Especially this bit....

 

 

Quote

He said: “Well, there were always going to be a few bumps in the road, but I’m still confident we’ll be in by Christmas.


“We just need to do the roof, the walls, the windows, all the electrical fitting, the bespoke bentwood spiral staircase has to be shipped from Germany and lifted in by crane, and the entire exterior needs to be hand-tiled while I apply for retrospective planning permission.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Temp

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