Planning permission objection by neighbour

[Jess27]

Hi all 

 

So we recently put in for planning permission, for a double side extension with change of roof. We are also end terrace. The objection it's self is not to actually do with plans for the build, so we're unsure if they will course any problem. Just looking for a little guidance. 

 

Planing ref 20/00356/FULL

 

https://publicaccess.gosport.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=QGQXJ2HO02B00&activeTab=summary 

[Roundtuit]

I don't think so.  Doesn't seem to be based on valid planning reasons, just a neighbour with too much time on their hands...

[Tom]

You're neighbour isn't Victor Meldrew by any chance?

[PeterW]

Nothing in there that a planning officer will worry about. 

[Onoff]

48 minutes ago, Tom said:

You're neighbour isn't Victor Meldrew by any chance?

 

I don't believe it. 

[Bored Shopper]

Just a nasty neighbour who'll make your life difficult during the project.

Our neighbours across the street (sic!) in a quiet street with no parking restrictions objected to our plans on the grounds that they will have nowhere to park (currently parking 3x cars alongside their small bungalow, taking up more space than any neighbour). Also objected that our 1st floor windows would overlook their bedroom windows (bedrooms on the street-facing elevation) - althought we are placed at an angle to their house, and right in front of their bungalow there's another neighbours' house which has been overlooking them directly  for the past40 years or so.

 

Planning authorities did not mind and approved the application (just put in a condition re considerate construction etc).

 

 We've had to ask all our contractors to avoid parking at their side like plague. They still abused us and our team for 9 months, etc etc. We took the mickey by sending them a nice "thank you" card and a party  invite at the end of the project, like to all our neighbours. Really pissed them off. Had a great party without them

[Ferdinand]

I am gong to disagree slightly here after looking at the app.

 

N has objected to 2 things - can logistics be done safely on a main / side road corner site with double yellows all the way round, and a big pile of junk in your front garden.  

 

The first one looks trickier, and  I can see the Council asking you to show that it can be done safely. Probably not difficult but it is a big extension, and arrangements could have a cost attached (eg where is the skip going?).

 

The second one is not a planning matter as such, but site tidiness may be an issue if it becomes a nuisance, and were they to complain via the correct route (council, but not planning), you would get a letter about your current pile. But tidying up is not difficult. Councils are usually tolerant of safe piles of stuff for the duration of a project.

 

Not showstoppers, but I think you could get a couple of planning conditions.

 

I think a potential issue is trying to go from a hipped end corner terrace 3.5m or so from the sideroad pavement to a 3 storey with a gable end perhaps 0.5m from the sideroad pavement, bearing in mind that there are 3 or 4 blocks of similar terraces with similar corners and none of the others have been extended. You will need some work to show that that is "in keeping" with the area. That is a planning issue. If you can find one done before similarly in the area it should help.

 

I think there is also a question mark over that driveway access. Is it accepted and established with a proper drop kerb and planning permission? From the photo it looks like a hole in a garden wall, and was clearly not there in 2015, or in Dec 2016 when it was purchased. It is very close to the corner. That is also a planning issue, which could be the showstopper imo. What is Council policy on the minimum distance? I am also not sure about all those parking spaces. 

 

But your neighbour is clearly not that good at making relevant objections.

 

I would suggest the key thing to do is to watch for the Planning Officer's report and address any  points therein well before the Decision Date if the recommendation is to refuse. You should be able to withdraw the app and reconsider then reapply within a few months without another lot of fees if the  project is very similar.

 

And look carefully or the consultee response from Highways. That will have relevant stuff in if they object. 

 

Check the website every day for these.

 

Perhaps not what you want to hear, but that is imo any difficulties will lie. Personally I think you may potentially need to hip the end or leave the side extension single storey, and put more parking round the back (which will cost part of your garden). 

 

Best of luck, however - and I hope I am not correct here.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

I am afraid I have reservations about this proposal as well.

 

Planners tend not to like you going beyond the building line of the side street which this clearly does.

Do you have PP for the front parking? I am a little surprised that was granted right next to the corner.

The new garage will be awkward to get a car in,lets be honest you have no intention of that.

I am not convinced the stairs to the third floor, disjointed from the main stairs will meet building regs, but that is not a planning matter.

conversion to a gable end will be out of keeping with the other houses in the area.

 

I am not convinced this particular house is the best candidate for a side extension.

 

 

[Jess27]

17 hours ago, Tom said:

You're neighbour isn't Victor Meldrew by any chance?

No he is not 

[Jess27]

Rubbish has only been there during the lock down and we done Internal work and our garden.  We have only both recently gone back to work so now have the fund to order skips. 

 

The driveway was authorised by the council. They allowed it due to the terrible parking on our street we also have. 

 

There has been a recent house within the last two years that has gone from hip to gable end. 

 

Skips will go on driveways. We also have a garage put back for additional parking. 

 

Also on a side note the guy that did our plans has worked for the council and say on planning meeting so. I believe he knows what he is doing.  The house next door to use has permission granted for a much larger side extension earlier this year. 

[Jess27]

Rubbish has only been there during the lock down and we done Internal work and our garden.  We have only both recently gone back to work so now have the fund to order skips. 

 

The driveway was authorised by the council. They allowed it due to the terrible parking on our street we also have. 

 

There has been a recent house within the last two years that has gone from hip to gable end. 

 

Skips will go on driveways. We also have a garage put back for additional parking. 

 

Also on a side note the guy that did our plans has worked for the council and say on planning meeting so. I believe he knows what he is doing.  The house next door to use has permission granted for a much larger side extension earlier this year. 

[Jess27]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I am gong to disagree slightly here after looking at the app.

 

N has objected to 2 things - can logistics be done safely on a main / side road corner site with double yellows all the way round, and a big pile of junk in your front garden.  

 

The first one looks trickier, and  I can see the Council asking you to show that it can be done safely. Probably not difficult but it is a big extension, and arrangements could have a cost attached (eg where is the skip going?).

 

The second one is not a planning matter as such, but site tidiness may be an issue if it becomes a nuisance, and were they to complain via the correct route (council, but not planning), you would get a letter about your current pile. But tidying up is not difficult. Councils are usually tolerant of safe piles of stuff for the duration of a project.

 

Not showstoppers, but I think you could get a couple of planning conditions.

 

I think a potential issue is trying to go from a hipped end corner terrace 3.5m or so from the sideroad pavement to a 3 storey with a gable end perhaps 0.5m from the sideroad pavement, bearing in mind that there are 3 or 4 blocks of similar terraces with similar corners and none of the others have been extended. You will need some work to show that that is "in keeping" with the area. That is a planning issue. If you can find one done before similarly in the area it should help.

 

I think there is also a question mark over that driveway access. Is it accepted and established with a proper drop kerb and planning permission? From the photo it looks like a hole in a garden wall, and was clearly not there in 2015, or in Dec 2016 when it was purchased. It is very close to the corner. That is also a planning issue, which could be the showstopper imo. What is Council policy on the minimum distance? I am also not sure about all those parking spaces. 

 

But your neighbour is clearly not that good at making relevant objections.

 

I would suggest the key thing to do is to watch for the Planning Officer's report and address any  points therein well before the Decision Date if the recommendation is to refuse. You should be able to withdraw the app and reconsider then reapply within a few months without another lot of fees if the  project is very similar.

 

And look carefully or the consultee response from Highways. That will have relevant stuff in if they object. 

 

Check the website every day for these.

 

Perhaps not what you want to hear, but that is imo any difficulties will lie. Personally I think you may potentially need to hip the end or leave the side extension single storey, and put more parking round the back (which will cost part of your garden). 

 

Best of luck, however - and I hope I am not correct here.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Jess27 said:

Rubbish has only been there during the lock down and we done Internal work and our garden.  We have only both recently gone back to work so now have the fund to order skips. 

 

The driveway was authorised by the council. They allowed it due to the terrible parking on our street we also have. 

 

There has been a recent house within the last two years that has gone from hip to gable end. 

 

Skips will go on driveways. We also have a garage put back for additional parking. 

 

Also on a side note the guy that did our plans has worked for the council and say on planning meeting so. I believe he knows what he is doing.  The house next door to use has permission granted for a much larger side extension earlier this year. 

 

[Ferdinand]

5 minutes ago, Jess27 said:

Rubbish has only been there during the lock down and we done Internal work and our garden.  We have only both recently gone back to work so now have the fund to order skips. 

 

The driveway was authorised by the council. They allowed it due to the terrible parking on our street we also have. 

 

There has been a recent house within the last two years that has gone from hip to gable end. 

 

Skips will go on driveways. We also have a garage put back for additional parking. 

 

Also on a side note the guy that did our plans has worked for the council and say on planning meeting so. I believe he knows what he is doing.  The house next door to use has permission granted for a much larger side extension earlier this year. 

 

excellent.

 

Good to have answers to the likely questions ?.

[Jess27]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

I am afraid I have reservations about this proposal as well.

 

Planners tend not to like you going beyond the building line of the side street which this clearly does.

Do you have PP for the front parking? I am a little surprised that was granted right next to the corner.

The new garage will be awkward to get a car in,lets be honest you have no intention of that.

I am not convinced the stairs to the third floor, disjointed from the main stairs will meet building regs, but that is not a planning matter.

conversion to a gable end will be out of keeping with the other houses in the area.

 

I am not convinced this particular house is the best candidate for a side extension.

 

 

The extension is away from the building line. 

 

Yes we did get PP fro drive way house next to use also has driveway. They allowed it as parking is extremely congested down this street. It will be a garage but not for a car.  Will not be a habitual room. 

 

A house alone the street from us has converted their room within the last two years. 

[Jess27]

7 hours ago, Bored Shopper said:

Just a nasty neighbour who'll make your life difficult during the project.

Our neighbours across the street (sic!) in a quiet street with no parking restrictions objected to our plans on the grounds that they will have nowhere to park (currently parking 3x cars alongside their small bungalow, taking up more space than any neighbour). Also objected that our 1st floor windows would overlook their bedroom windows (bedrooms on the street-facing elevation) - althought we are placed at an angle to their house, and right in front of their bungalow there's another neighbours' house which has been overlooking them directly  for the past40 years or so.

 

Planning authorities did not mind and approved the application (just put in a condition re considerate construction etc).

 

 We've had to ask all our contractors to avoid parking at their side like plague. They still abused us and our team for 9 months, etc etc. We took the mickey by sending them a nice "thank you" card and a party  invite at the end of the project, like to all our neighbours. Really pissed them off. Had a great party without them

They are retired and have nothing better to do they always move our bins which are out back on our land. Always moan if it isn't their way its no way. Making our life different all we want to do is improve our house for our family. So outdated 1930 house haha 

[Ferdinand]

So it looks like you can be somewhat reassured, @Jess27.

[Cresswelle]

You may find that the planners will only grant permission for a double if a certain distance is kept from the boundary. We had a similar predicament and the planners wanted 2m from the boundary meaning we could only extend 2.2 metres for the double storey. We got planning for a single and are hoping to do a hip to gable for the additional bedroom. This is currently with the planners for LDC. 
 

worth checking the rules on the councils website about the distance needed and look at similar properties on corner plots. Each council is different so you may be ok. Good luck 

[AliG]

I would look at the planning history for your street and see if anyone else has applied for a similar extension and been rejected.

 

A look on Google maps shows that pretty much none of the houses on the corners have side extensions, a couple seem to have small single storey ones in the area.

 

The council may refuse on breaking the building line, again on all the corners, the side of the house on the corner lines up very well with the front of the house behind it, or due to traffic sightlines, although I don't think this would be any worse than currently.

 

As said the actual objections are just complaints they should have made to you personally and are of no planning consequence.

[Pocster]

@Jess27

I looked briefly at your proposal .

If I can get planning in the most arrogant self righteous toss pot area with the wealthiest neighbours who have the council planners as “ friends “ then don’t you dare quit . Adapt .

Turn opinion into fact . 
Planning is only half the story the other half is politics - I can guess what you think of that . So mitigate or reduce an alleged issue . Compromise where you need to . Play your worst hand so you can come back with your best hand .

Though I’ve offered you no technical usable advice - you got this ?

Edited October 8, 2020 by pocster
Spelling is tricky when wine has been consumed

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

@Jess27

I looked briefly at your proposal .

If I can get planning in the most arrogant self righteous toss pot area with the wealthiest neighbours who have the council planners as “ friends “ then don’t you dare quit . Adapt .

Turn opinion into fact . 
Planning is only half the story the other half is politics - I can guess what you think of that . So mitigate or reduce an alleged issue . Compromise where you need to . Play your worst hand so you can come back with your best hand .

Though I’ve offered you no technical usable advice - you got this ?

Oh yes . Record covertly all planning / council meetings . A few gems may well appear .

[Jess27]

On 08/10/2020 at 12:34, AliG said:

I would look at the planning history for your street and see if anyone else has applied for a similar extension and been rejected.

 

A look on Google maps shows that pretty much none of the houses on the corners have side extensions, a couple seem to have small single storey ones in the area.

 

The council may refuse on breaking the building line, again on all the corners, the side of the house on the corner lines up very well with the front of the house behind it, or due to traffic sightlines, although I don't think this would be any worse than currently.

 

As said the actual objections are just complaints they should have made to you personally and are of no planning consequence.

The house next to use has already has a double storey side extention and also applied earlier this year for another for a much larger double storey and got permission. They have a larger plotter to the side than use. 

[Jess27]

On 07/10/2020 at 13:47, Cresswelle said:

You may find that the planners will only grant permission for a double if a certain distance is kept from the boundary. We had a similar predicament and the planners wanted 2m from the boundary meaning we could only extend 2.2 metres for the double storey. We got planning for a single and are hoping to do a hip to gable for the additional bedroom. This is currently with the planners for LDC. 
 

worth checking the rules on the councils website about the distance needed and look at similar properties on corner plots. Each council is different so you may be ok. Good luck 

The person that did our plans used to work for council planning department so he knows what can and can't be done. He would have told us if it wouldn't be passed. 

[the_r_sole]

1 hour ago, Jess27 said:

The person that did our plans used to work for council planning department so he knows what can and can't be done. He would have told us if it wouldn't be passed. 

 

No one can guarantee planning approval, no matter where they might have worked.

Planning constantly throws up surprises...

(Although in your case, I guess you'll be ok)

[joe90]

We also had a “victor Meldrew” neighbour who complained about and objected to everything. Council planner was against everything we wanted. After 4 planning applications refused I took it to appeal and won hands down, the council were even told they were not abiding by their own policies . So don’t be bullied by neighbours or planners, deal with fact and do your homework. Best of luck and keep us informed ?

[dangti6]

This application came to mind so I had a look and unfortunately see you were refused.

 

"The proposed two-storey side and rear extension would, by reason of its unsympathetic scale, appearance and inappropriate roof form and relationship with the recipient property and wider street scene, together with lack of detailed design features, appear as an incongruous and visually discordant feature that would be at odds with the appearance of the existing dwelling and wider street scene."

 

 

On 11/10/2020 at 19:47, Jess27 said:

The person that did our plans used to work for council planning department so he knows what can and can't be done. He would have told us if it wouldn't be passed. 

 

This stood out to me:

'4. Notwithstanding the inaccuracies in the submitted plans'

 

Where do you go from here? Have they offered any guidance on any changes that could be made to appease them?