TheMitchells

Plot Access for Fire Engine

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8 minutes ago, Russdl said:

@newhome We have to reverse our wheelie bin 60m down the lane to the road.

 

Just checked the distance we have to move ours and it's about 28m to the end of our drive.  I've also just done a quick-and-dirty check on the distance from the nearest place a fire appliance could park (on our single track lane at the end of our drive - it wouldn't be able to get up our drive due to the change in slope) to the furthest point around the back of the house and it's damned close to the 45m limit, perhaps over it in reality with hoses draped over walls/fences.  Interestingly, any fire appliance that did park at the end of our drive would need to reverse back up around 50m of single track road to leave.  We are the same local authority as you, and same fire officer...

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1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

We are the same local authority as you, and same fire officer...

 

Infuriating isn't it!

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A fire engine has 120m of hose reel on the appliance that is used for the initial attack at any house fire. The object is to control the fire using the least amount of water as this is converted into steam and anybody trapped inside or the firefighters doing the rescue do not want to cook themselves. By the time you need the larger size hose it is a point and shoot exercise and you are trying to contain that fire to one house and not set other houses on fire .

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10 hours ago, Russdl said:

 

@Temp How should I go about arguing that point? Is there some document I can refer to? I hope you're right but I suspect you saw @Ed Davies comment earlier in the thread and one of you will definitely be correct:

 

Planning and Building control are separate issues...

 

Planning: Once you have planning permission it can only be changed in very exceptional circumstances and in some of those the planners have to pay compensation. This isn't one of those situations. The planners have no mechanism to change your existing approval but the issue could be raised should you make a revised application or a new application. For example if you needed planning permission for the garage then the fire brigade could object then. If you don't need planning approval to build the garage then they have no opportunity to object on those grounds. That's why its important to know if you can build the garage under permitted development rules (which are complicated if its near the plot boundary).

 

Building Control: The BCOs job is to ensure your house meets the Building Regulations. It sounds like he noticed you couldn't comply with Part B and contacted the fire department to see if they would give him an excuse to bend the rules in your favour. As it happens they said no. So you will have to come up with some solution. In my case we discovered a window was too small. The BCO allowed us to keep the small window on the proviso that we improved the fire rating of the door to that room. Eg he bent the rules for us.

 

If you provided a turning circle now that would keep the BCO happy but it might cause problems later when you need him back to approve the garage and he finds your house no longer complies.

.

 

 

 

Th

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Good luck Russ, we orginally posted this question and in the end, we withdrew from the plot purchase.  There was problems with trees increasing the foundation depths and the fire access problem, and the access was not great.  I am hoping you dont have that many issues and you can come up with a solution.🙄

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@Temp We’re investigating the sprinkler option that should ease the fire departments worries. But I’m still at a loss as to how that would help them reverse over 20m unless of course they won’t attend a fire if I have a sprinkler system!

 

@TheMitchells I REALLY hope we find a solution as well. I’ll update when I have news. 

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Well, our architect has proposed a solution that BCO are happy with and it all looks good on paper, but the paper doesn't show the future garage...

 

We will have a turning 'Y' for the fire engine to turn around on.

 

For the sprinkler option we were looking at around £3K, apart from the fact that we wouldn't be able to provide 98 litres/minute!! flow rate so that would be around another £500 for a 1200 litre storage tank and £1K for a pump system, so the best part of £5K for the sprinkler system. I don't have a quote for a misting system yet.

 

Screenshot 2019-01-20 at 14.39.36.png

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Just go with this and build the garage after the house is signed off.  If you want you can use a private Building Inspector for the garage but there should not be any issues.

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On 10/01/2019 at 18:26, Temp said:

If you provided a turning circle now that would keep the BCO happy but it might cause problems later when you need him back to approve the garage and he finds your house no longer complies.

 

Does the BCO need to approve the garage? I didn't think they were normally relevant unless attached the house or of non traditional construction with windows facing the neighbours (all part of the fire aspect.

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1 minute ago, Mr Punter said:

Just go with this and build the garage after the house is signed off

 

Exactly, that's plan A, actually, it's more like X than A!

 

2 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Does the BCO need to approve the garage?

 

As I understand, it's also dependant on distance to boundaries as well and we plan to have it quite close to the eastern boundary

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Where is the garage going?  Just at the end of the top right arm of the turning space and I can't see a problem.

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3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Where is the garage going? 

 

Hopefully relatively close to the house and eastern boundary and big enough to put cars in and still use as a workshop.

Screenshot 2019-01-20 at 14.39.36.png

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1 hour ago, Russdl said:

As I understand, it's also dependant on distance to boundaries as well and we plan to have it quite close to the eastern boundary

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings/2

 

If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed substantially of non-combustible materials.

 

Our garage is Timber Frame with insulation and is right on the boundary with neighbour, but as it is slate roof and cement board rendered, this was considered sufficient to exempt it from Building regs.

 

 

 

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