zoothorn

Basic upvc frame job Q‘s.

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@zoothorn make sure you give them accurate measurements INCLUDING THE CILL, and make that very apparent on your order. Have come across some firms that have got this wrong.

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Is there no upstand at the back of the concrete cill?

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37 minutes ago, joe90 said:

@zoothorn make sure you give them accurate measurements INCLUDING THE CILL, and make that very apparent on your order. Have come across some firms that have got this wrong.


Hi Joe.. that was my next q thanks for that titbit. Ok I wasn't including the sill in my 1150 dim.. so attacking the inside reveals today & will remeasure.

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Be careful..!!! @joe90 is referring to the wooden cill, not the concrete cill ..!! If that is staying in then it is opening only you need to measure. 

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10 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

Is there no upstand at the back of the concrete cill?


Hi dpm.. Ive googled upstand, but cant quite figure if I have or not.. not quite on board ( again!) but if it refers to inside:

 

If this helps? I have a 1" softwood cill this side, I trimmed flush to the wall.. masking tape to id it. If this wall is tiled for eg (plan is simply a small basin in here, utility room, & a cheap worktop around it & covering the washing machine rhs of basin) then I sppose trying to keep this makes sense, if possible, few tiles ontop of it & reveals maybe..

 

 

 

 

8D527A13-742C-4487-B90F-51B9650FB063.jpeg

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1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Be careful..!!! @joe90 is referring to the wooden cill, not the concrete cill ..!! If that is staying in then it is opening only you need to measure. 


Yup thanks Peter.. Im attacking it today, will do a pic to make sure of what to include later.
 

Just added an inside pic, post above this might be useful.

 

Thanks, zoot

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No. On the outside is there a gap between the concrete cill and the timber one? Like the concrete sits up in a ridge at the back. And does the concrete one have a good slope on it?

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I've dug away @ plaster & measured very accurately the existing frame, including to the underside of its timber sill. It hits bang on..

 

47" x 24-1/4". 
 

So it seems made in inches, & as its so bang on these figs, unlikely to be a made-to-fit frame Id think.. would anyone concur?

 

Not that it makes much difference, but perhaps the reason why its set so far into the inside plastered reveal.. 3/4" (lhs), and 3/8" (rhs).

 

So to get my new upvc frame dims, 47-1/2" x 25" ?? (I'm sure Co happy with inch figs.. makes more sense to me this way).

 

That equates into atrociousheathen mm's, to an additional: 10mm each side, & 6mm each top & btm.

 

thx zh

 

 

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1 hour ago, dpmiller said:

No. On the outside is there a gap between the concrete cill and the timber one? Like the concrete sits up in a ridge at the back. And does the concrete one have a good slope on it?


Ah ok. Yes there's a small gap just poke a screwdriver into.. so yes it seems the frame sits up, upon a level ridge, 43mm back from the frame sill edge. Frame sits up maybe 10mm up on this concrete level 'shelf'.

 

Then a Good slope to concrete sill. Thx zh

 

 

C9F4E6E7-4DDD-4DF7-8CD7-A63F552062B6.jpeg

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If so, no stub cill required IMO. I know they are common in England but over here the frame is generally just set on top of the boot cill with the frame overhanging outside slightly.

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42 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

If so, no stub cill required IMO. I know they are common in England but over here the frame is generally just set on top of the boot cill with the frame overhanging outside slightly.


Ah ok understood, that makes sense to me dpm. Seems to simplify things Id have thought. Might make it a tad cheaper too.

 

I have of course got my dims for the upvc frame wrong, its not bigger but smaller I need! (I'm not sleeping well/ heat etc).

 

Ok so now I know the frame rests on the concrete boot cill, I don't think I need new frame smaller by 1 cm or so here. Maybe just deduct 5 mm from the top? And maybe deduct 5 mm from each L and R side? I must get opinions on this before I order.

 

Would it be fair to assume a single pane, non-opening window (ok for me as I never open this one), would be cheapest option?

 

thx zoot

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Ok  to reitterate; my existing frame (including wood cill) is: H = 47", W = 24- 1/4".

 

So would this be correct to orderfor the new frame..

 

1) upvc frame @ H 36- 3/4", W = 23- 3/4".

2) white upvc 28mm DG (clear glass).

3) one continuous pane/ not opening.

4) no cill required.

 

Is that all the info I need to give? Thanks for help chaps, zoot

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21 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Is that all the info I need to give?

 

Yes, sounds about right to me.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, joe90 said:
5 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Is that all the info I need to give?

 

Yes, sounds about right to me.


Good thats a plan then& finally can get cracking on this. Lastly, is this any issue here.. the frame being set  a full 3/4" into the plater this side ?(better the other side, set in @ 3/8"). Hope you can just see how far in it goes..

 

thanks zoot

7D959D86-F3E3-44D5-B762-C982874F3F56.jpeg

Edited by zoothorn

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@zoothorn, I think it will be more important to have the frame into the render equally both sides, if not it will look odd from the outside. You can build up the plaster as your hacking it off anyway. Is the window frame width equal from the outside?.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, joe90 said:

@zoothorn, I think it will be more important to have the frame into the render equally both sides, if not it will look odd from the outside. You can build up the plaster as your hacking it off anyway. Is the window frame width equal from the outside?.


Hi Joe, from outside the frame's equal/ fine.. so why its set so far into the inside plaster this side in the photo ( above), Ive no idea assuming done afterwards.

 

My other upvc frames in this 80's extention are like this with a stub cill. I cant see how any drainage occurs, I cant see any holes for water to escape; cant quite understand how any water should ever be inside the frame in the 1 st place for a stub cill to let out via holes. Zh

 

 

 

 

98997F37-EB4C-4D81-8067-D22888D17F62.jpeg

Edited by zoothorn

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2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I cant see how any drainage occurs, I cant see any holes for water to escape; cant quite understand how any water should ever be inside the frame in the 1 st place for a stub cill to let out via holes. Zh

It’s for water or condensation in the frame, not cill. The holes are in the bottom of the frame and any water runs out of that gap between frame and stub cill. That’s why you should not fill that outside gap between stub cill and frame.

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23 minutes ago, joe90 said:

It’s for water or condensation in the frame, not cill. The holes are in the bottom of the frame and any water runs out of that gap between frame and stub cill. That’s why you should not fill that outside gap between stub cill and frame.


So the window here hasn't been installed correctly then? Anyway its a moot point if Im not going with a cill on my newframe.. but I still cant see in my upvc window above, how any condensation or water could get inside this frame. It looks fine to me.

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On 23/07/2021 at 13:48, joe90 said:

It’s for water or condensation in the frame, not cill. The holes are in the bottom of the frame and any water runs out of that gap between frame and stub cill. That’s why you should not fill that outside gap between stub cill and frame.


Hi Joe, can I just pick up on what you say here. im a bit confused still about the frame, onto the cill situation.

 

I finally got my window quote today ( £70 seems almost too good to be true, fab). Now just to reitterate I asked for "no stub cill required". i googled stub cill so can get a rough idea of what this section is ( Im going without). So my frame as ordered, is to go onto the old concrete cill, & I factored this into my H dims.

 

I went into place today to nudge them re. my quote, & asked if my " no stub cill" requirement made sense to them, yes he said 'the frame.. holes.. vent.. " some wording along these lines, but couldn't make sense of what he was eluding to. Can you clarify for me?

 

I obviously need to make super-sure, the window without this stub cill, is compatible with where I intend the frame to sit upon. Thx zh

 

 

 

 

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This is my interpretation...

 

uPVC windows normally have drainage holes. Sometimes these come out of the bottom of the frame like this..

 

cill diagram

 

If your Door/Window sits directly on a concrete sill that drainage would be blocked. So I think when "no sill" is specified they have to put vents/drainage on the face of the window like this..

 

Drain Hole Covers

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Temp fab help thank you. That all makes sense now: I'll email this diagram & if they concur.. can order at last!

 

Aprreciated, zh

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If they forget, I think its possible to cut your own holes  and add the drainage vents.

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21 minutes ago, Temp said:

If they forget, I think its possible to cut your own holes  and add the drainage vents.


Yup indeed good idea.. I need to crack on, waited ages for quote. If it drains from the btm, & my concrete cill is 65mm (a likely fig looking at www info), then if the frame's W 70mm.. I might just have a few mm's of vent anyway, without butchering it!

 

Good I can order it then.

 

thanks zoot.

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2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Good I can order it then.

Yes,  here is a (bad) drawing if what you will have. Your existing concrete cill should have a small upstand at the back when you remove the timber window. This will allow any moisture that gets into the window frame to drip out and run down your concrete cill. Just make sure to put sone silicone on the concrete cill only at the back so as not to block this weep hole 

 

 

image.jpg

Edited by joe90

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