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ash_scotland88

AHSP and radiators, older houses

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In the feeling of the never ending quest to find a renovation property with land the odd farmhouse has popped up. Most have been with oil boilers and as you can imagine they aren't the most airtight for the classic UFH and ASHP combo.

The latest house we've viewed doesn't even have central heating, it's electric radiators and an immersion with an oil fueled range providing the hot water. My question:

 

Who's successfully installed ASHP and radiator system CH?

 

Did you run with normal radiators or go with aluminium, as some websites appear to suggest. High temperature ASHP appear to be a newish thing on the market designed for this sort of scenario, is there much benefit speccing these over the standard ones?

 

I'm just trying to get an idea into options and the associated costs of installation and obviously taking into account upping the insulation levels where do-able.

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Posted (edited)

Oh, and don't forget that the RHI scheme dies off ( IIRC ) sometime in  2020. There is another scheme called "the heat-pump tariff" but I haven't had any details on that yet so google will be your friend.

Edited by Nickfromwales

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Thanks, will read into it. Admittedly my brief reading of paragraphs about hybrid systems only brought up gas as the other fuel.

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I have an old property that i part refurbished, i have a 7kw panasonic ASHP, i have panasonic air rads in the livingroom/kitchen area and normal double radiators everywhere else. I have a 255l hot water cylinder as i only heat my hot water to 48deg, and i run my flow temp at a fixed 36deg.

 

The biggest thing is to make sure you understand the insulation and airtightness has to be carefully considered, ASHP are better used to keep a constant temp in for example a slab with UFH, dont think that you can come home and fire up the heating and the house will be warm in an hour or so, basically if you dont have decent insulation and air tightness levels ASHP is probably a bad idea

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I think the air tightness may be an issue, it's a lovely 1860 house (previous house we didn't get from closed bidding was 1835) filled with the originial period features so ripping down ceilings and padding out walls (some external walls must be close to 1000mm thick already!) and lose all the features and old wall textures etc one may as well buy a new build at that point! Of course the attic rooms can be knocked about to hearts content to insulate those which would help the house. Windows, the modern veluxs need replaced before the sash n case but double glazing is obviously on the cards.

The biggest concern at the moment for this house is installing a heating system of some description.

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26 minutes ago, ash_scotland88 said:

The biggest concern at the moment for this house is installing a heating system of some description.

 

4 hours ago, ash_scotland88 said:

with an oil fueled range providing the hot water

So why not just connect radiators to the range and keep the oil install / tank / etc for the get-go? It's either start with a full brand new system or apply some duct tape and WD40 to what you already have to minimise the capital expenditure ( not so much good money now after bad ? ).

Whatever flow and return pipework you install will be the same needed if / when you upgrade to whatever, but you seriously need to look at getting on the RHI scheme in some way ( achievable with the hybrid and you should max out at £12k over 7 years if you use the current EPC :ph34r: ) and go for a hybrid. During the periods heading into and out of the shoulder months the ASHP can provide heating at the unassisted temperatures, and then when it gets bitter the oil kicks in to help out.

You are where you are with heating requirements, but with walls that thick I would look closely at the draught-proofing and triple glazing / good external doors, as infiltration will be your worst enemy IMO. Swap the extractor fans for ones with shutters, and yes, go mad in the attic with insulation!

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I though the range would be too inefficient, but could maybe make do for a winter season, but by that attitude the previous occupants survived 30+ years with what's there so why can't we?

But yes, hybrid is looking the best way forward.

 

Offer submitted today so will find out tomorrow maybe. Even if we don't get this one then it's all research and knowledge added. There's the big grand plan of rebuilding a wooden lean to to move the utility into and expand the kitchen into the old space. So anything that's make do may need to take into consideration that.

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On 11/08/2020 at 16:06, Nickfromwales said:

Oh, and don't forget that the RHI scheme dies off ( IIRC ) sometime in  2020. There is another scheme called "the heat-pump tariff" but I haven't had any details on that yet so google will be your friend.

I've been told by one of the companies that are quoting for my ASHP that RHI won't be reduced until a certain quota of installations has been completed and that will take some time because of Covid delays. The other company has been pushing me to sign up asap, saying it will drop on 1st Oct.  

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Just now, ASHP newbie said:

I've been told by one of the companies that are quoting for my ASHP that RHI won't be reduced until a certain quota of installations has been completed and that will take some time because of Covid delays. The other company has been pushing me to sign up asap, saying it will drop on 1st Oct.  

I'm going to the NSBRC on Saturday and I will then have ACTUAL facts, derived from a meeting I'm having there. I can update here once I'm all 'myths dispelled', and in possession of the details regarding the new Heat Pump Tariff also.

 

4 minutes ago, ASHP newbie said:

The other company has been pushing me to sign up asap, saying it will drop on 1st Oct.

Best you keep them at arms length for the moment...........

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3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I'm going to the NSBRC on Saturday and I will then have ACTUAL facts, derived from a meeting I'm having there. I can update here once I'm all 'myths dispelled', and in possession of the details regarding the new Heat Pump Tariff also.

 

Best you keep them at arms length for the moment...........

Would appreciate knowing whether I can take my time making up my mind or need to get on with it to get RHI.

Am no longer talking with the 'pushy' company.

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1 minute ago, ASHP newbie said:

Would appreciate knowing whether I can take my time making up my mind or need to get on with it to get RHI.

Am no longer talking with the 'pushy' company.

No need to write any cheques tonight ;) 

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46 minutes ago, ASHP newbie said:

Would appreciate knowing whether I can take my time making up my mind or need to get on with it to get RHI.

Am no longer talking with the 'pushy' company.

OK. Said colleague just rang me back;

 

31st March 2022 is the official RHI scheme cut-off date, ( so the guys quoting 1st of Oct are talking out of their arses, and are just high-pressure salesmen ).

 

If this is installed after that date, you would then possibly be eligible for the ( under discussion ATM ) Clean Heat Grant which offers a one-off payment of £4k.

 

The Green Deal grant which is now live I think ( England ) would also fortify your property with additional insulation / upgrade to glazing etc but I believe you have to pay a 1/3 and they pay 2/3's or something similar. Google will enlighten you there, but I think it would also extend to the installation costs of the ASHP now, you need to get on the phone as it seems you may miss out if you steam on unaware ;) . Check your eligibility and leave no stone un-turned BEFORE spending a single penny. 

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As and update didn't get this house, there was an offer significantly more than ours and ours was under the offers over value.

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On 13/08/2020 at 17:12, Nickfromwales said:

OK. Said colleague just rang me back;

 

31st March 2022 is the official RHI scheme cut-off date, ( so the guys quoting 1st of Oct are talking out of their arses, and are just high-pressure salesmen ).

 

If this is installed after that date, you would then possibly be eligible for the ( under discussion ATM ) Clean Heat Grant which offers a one-off payment of £4k.

 

The Green Deal grant which is now live I think ( England ) would also fortify your property with additional insulation / upgrade to glazing etc but I believe you have to pay a 1/3 and they pay 2/3's or something similar. Google will enlighten you there, but I think it would also extend to the installation costs of the ASHP now, you need to get on the phone as it seems you may miss out if you steam on unaware ;) . Check your eligibility and leave no stone un-turned BEFORE spending a single penny. 

 

I've had info on  now on the Green Homes Grant - but they take it off any RHI payments so it just helps with some of the upfront costs. Can apply at  end of this month. I'll see if I get anything. It is valid for ASHP etc.

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