Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Have a scout round temporary access yards for a "one man cradle" maybe. Even a Solsit (powered chair) would have all the gubbins to adapt; 230V winch, secondary safety device etc. Then "all" you need to worry about is the jib up top! ? A platform on a single suspension point may have a tendency to spin. I'd be looking at guide rails...like a lift. https://www.tractel.com/en/product/solo-platform-for-temporary-access/14156?pimcore_request_source=staticroute&controller=Product&action=default 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 30 minutes ago, pocster said: Rotating it won't be an issue if I have a platform Go for it. What do I know after 40 years working in the access game? ? Anti spin ropes are shite too btw. Strategically placed wall rollers can help with preventing spinning. You DO NOT want this thing catching as you hoist up. It'll overload the lifting jib unless you guard against it. Similarly, snagging on the way down is bad, they can snag, pay out rope then suddenly drop. All sorts of considerations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Here’s a better view of the corner . So 4 5m vertical Scaf poles for the corners ( 3 bolted somehow to the wall ) . I guess some kind of metal ‘tray’ for the lift floor . Not sure how to fix that cage together then to winch . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) Either an up and over central stirrup or 4 wire slings to a central point. Most man lifting cages that go onto cranes, even fork lifts are steel, aka heavy. Most dedicated one man cradles are aluminium. https://www.google.com/search?q=man+liftjng+cage&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiswZ38-OLqAhURhhoKHbTADn0Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=man+liftjng+cage&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECAAQDVDhzgJYktQCYOrfAmgAcAB4AIABRIgBggGSAQEymAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=1EgZX6yHCpGMarSBu-gH&bih=612&biw=360&client=ms-android-samsung-ga-rev1&prmd=siv Edited July 23, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: Either an up and over central stirrup or 4 wire slings to a central point. Most man lifting cages that go onto cranes, even fork lifts are steel, aka heavy. Most dedicated one man cradles are aluminium. https://www.google.com/search?q=man+liftjng+cage&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiswZ38-OLqAhURhhoKHbTADn0Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=man+liftjng+cage&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECAAQDVDhzgJYktQCYOrfAmgAcAB4AIABRIgBggGSAQEymAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=1EgZX6yHCpGMarSBu-gH&bih=612&biw=360&client=ms-android-samsung-ga-rev1&prmd=siv Yep that type of thing . Though I need to make one ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) IBC cage with a few mods? Ply floor, cut the front out etc. https://hambleys.co.uk/product/1000-ltr-ibc-cage-steel-frame-and-steel-or-plastic-pallet-base/ Edited July 23, 2020 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Just remember with corner slings that the load gets exponentially multiplied as the angle gets flatter. So if you go that route your hoist will need to be a good bit higher than the top of the cage/spreader frame to allow for a decent angle on the slings - 60 degrees is common. That will obviously then mean a longer pole sticking up, so more bracing to counteract the greater forces where it meets the wall. If you can instead do an up and over stirrup so you can put the hoist on a single point above the centre that would allow you to minimise the hoist height. But obviously creates more of a risk of tipping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 59 minutes ago, Onoff said: IBC cage with a few mods? Ply floor, cut the front out etc. https://hambleys.co.uk/product/1000-ltr-ibc-cage-steel-frame-and-steel-or-plastic-pallet-base/ Ooooo ! That looks promising . Have to bolt Scaf poles vertical to each corner to gain the height ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 53 minutes ago, andyscotland said: Just remember with corner slings that the load gets exponentially multiplied as the angle gets flatter. So if you go that route your hoist will need to be a good bit higher than the top of the cage/spreader frame to allow for a decent angle on the slings - 60 degrees is common. That will obviously then mean a longer pole sticking up, so more bracing to counteract the greater forces where it meets the wall. If you can instead do an up and over stirrup so you can put the hoist on a single point above the centre that would allow you to minimise the hoist height. But obviously creates more of a risk of tipping. I think I get what you are saying .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) How temporary/permenant will this be? How many items? Is it worth lots of work? If it’s for the occasional item put it in a dumpy bag and haul it up/down. Edited July 23, 2020 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, joe90 said: How temporary/permenant will this be? How many items? Is it worth lots of work? If it’s for the occasional item put it in a dumpy bag and haul it up/down. I'm certain it will be one of those things I wished I made a year ago. The amount of materials to get underground is A LOT. Also later things like washer, dishwasher , fridge freezer etc. etc. I'm probably over thinking this now i.e making it more complicated than it need be. Looking back at the winch posts you linked to might be sufficient . I guess it's a level platform is the issue e.g. for washer etc. so not just a simple crane up/down with materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Then why not a winch like I suggested, a strong pallet with a wire from each corner, spreader bars to keep the wires vertical, if the pallet is in the corner it cannot twist, maybe a couple of timbers up the wall as guide rails, don’t let health and safety see it but I think I would suit your needs without £££££ and loads of work? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Hmmmmm So let me simplify See excellent drawing . ( my sparky hasn’t turned up today so thinking about a hoist / lift I think is time well spent ) Orange verticals are 4 5m Scaf poles - 3 can be bolted to the wall in the corner Pink horizontal are Scaff for support Yellow is effectively the gantry going from 1 corner to the other . Scaff pole again . This strong enough if the winch was mounted on that ? My issue then is the ‘cage’ - sure I can add timber to ‘guide’ it - so it doesn’t twist etc. Is this basic gantry strong enough ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, joe90 said: Then why not a winch like I suggested, a strong pallet with a wire from each corner, spreader bars to keep the wires vertical, if the pallet is in the corner it cannot twist, maybe a couple of timbers up the wall as guide rails, don’t let health and safety see it but I think I would suit your needs without £££££ and loads of work? ? Talk about a cross post ? Just what I was thinking . Just clarify how the spreader bars are arranged . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 minute ago, pocster said: Hmmmmm So let me simplify See excellent drawing . ( my sparky hasn’t turned up today so thinking about a hoist / lift I think is time well spent ) Orange verticals are 4 5m Scaf poles - 3 can be bolted to the wall in the corner Pink horizontal are Scaff for support Yellow is effectively the gantry going from 1 corner to the other . Scaff pole again . This strong enough if the winch was mounted on that ? My issue then is the ‘cage’ - sure I can add timber to ‘guide’ it - so it doesn’t twist etc. Is this basic gantry strong enough ?? What does your SE say? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Onoff said: What does your SE say? He wouldn’t say unless I paid him 500 quid It’s just the gantry bit I’m concerned about . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Modification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Onoff said: What does your SE say? WTF!!!! I don’t see why you need 4 vertical poles, one up the corner bolted to the wall (mostly at the top). Triangulated gubbins at the top like I said before, 4” square timbers up both walls to guide the sides of the pallet (and keep it away from the pole). See crap drawing below regarding spreader bars. Perhaps a scaffold clamp in the corner to stop the platform swinging whilst loading it. Edited July 23, 2020 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 19 hours ago, joe90 said: One of these and an a frame made of scaffold pole. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200-1000KG-Electric-Hoist-Scaffold-Winch-Lifting-Crane-Scaffolding-Garage-Gantry/333657926630?hash=item4daf8febe6:g:eT4AAOSwVbVfEbeb I used to use one of these fir bringing stuff up scaffold. Think I will go with this Some interesting 'tips' in the ad < - > 5. Do not use micro electric hoist as a manned elevator. That's my fun spoiled < - > 9. To enter the construction site must wear a safety helmet. Erm, ok < - > 10. Before the operation, the workers are not allowed to drink. That's my fun spoiled again! < - > 11. The site is not allowed in the barefoot, wearing slippers, high-heeled shoes and trousers. And again!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, joe90 said: WTF!!!! I don’t see why you need 4 vertical poles, one up the corner bolted to the wall (mostly at the top). Triangulated gubbins at the top like I said before, 4” square timbers up both walls to guide the sides of the pallet (and keep it away from the pole). See crap drawing below regarding spreader bars. Perhaps a scaffold clamp in the corner to stop the platform swinging whilst loading it. I guess spreader bars should be scaf poles? @joe90 I think @Onoff was joking about the SE Was looking at this website for scaf bits. Which clamps etc. should I use??? https://www.scaffolding-direct.co.uk Edited July 23, 2020 by pocster being a twat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, pocster said: I guess spreader bars should be scaf poles? @joe90 I think @Onoff was joking about the SE Was looking at this website for scaf bits. Which clamps etc. should I use??? Probably best but because they are in compression timber might do. I can just imagine what an SE or health and safety bod would say (but would not stop me doing it!!!,,, swivel clamps like these (swivel clamps allow you to clamp poles that are not at 90’ to each other) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-x-Scaffolding-Scaffold-Fittings-SWIVEL-DOUBLE-Couplers-Clamps-FREE-DELIVERY/224085486430?hash=item342c892b5e:g:w2cAAOSwKG1fCHBR shame I am so far away, I would love to help build this. Just make sure no building inspectors see it as they will have a fit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, joe90 said: Probably best but because they are in compression timber might do. I can just imagine what an SE or health and safety bod would say (but would not stop me doing it!!!,,, swivel clamps like these (swivel clamps allow you to clamp poles that are not at 90’ to each other) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-x-Scaffolding-Scaffold-Fittings-SWIVEL-DOUBLE-Couplers-Clamps-FREE-DELIVERY/224085486430?hash=item342c892b5e:g:w2cAAOSwKG1fCHBR shame I am so far away, I would love to help build this. Just make sure no building inspectors see it as they will have a fit I'd love someone who knows what they are doing to build this! ? So! Lets assume I go with https://www.screwfix.com/p/hilka-pro-craft-250kg-electric-hoist/49927?tc=MT8&ds_kid=92700046638549236&ds_rl=1243318&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=CjwKCAjwx9_4BRAHEiwApAt0zmiYhGkryHs6GUYHjZoU9BYpvOnVSZZQWLSoE0dtcI2WdEHl1XMm9xoCLmwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds and https://www.screwfix.com/p/hilka-pro-craft-hoist-support-arm-600kg/2240r as you suggest. 48mm scaf pole vertical. I'll buy a few shorter ones ( or perhaps just 1 long one so I can angle grind to suit? ) I then need to make that triangle to counter balance the weight. Not sure what I can / should use for that. Maybe a tank of some sort I can fill with water???? So @joe90 the winch hanging off 1 pole with the hoist support is strong enough on it's own for 100kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I think it's more usual to lift from a scaffold "ladder beam". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: I think it's more usual to lift from a scaffold "ladder beam". So this type of thing? https://www.scaffolding-direct.co.uk/alloy-steel-beams/ Provides better strength I assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Just now, pocster said: So this type of thing? https://www.scaffolding-direct.co.uk/alloy-steel-beams/ Provides better strength I assume? Yep. Still need to guard against twisting. A local scaffold co would likely knock you something up quite cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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