private water supply

[scottishjohn]

42 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

Some times during the day the flow can be zero, in fact had a few rare days when it's been nothing.

scottish water are bound by law to provide you with a minimum of 1bar --so speak to them and if pump system is at bottom then even less than that should fill your break tank ,presuming it is of a sensible sizeso you are not draining it quicker than using it

put a gauge on the mains line and then you can see what is going on 

[iSelfBuild]

1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

scottish water are bound by law to provide you with a minimum of 1bar --so speak to them and if pump system is at bottom then even less than that should fill your break tank ,presuming it is of a sensible sizeso you are not draining it quicker than using it

put a gauge on the mains line and then you can see what is going on 

 

They only guarantee it at the bottom of the site where the 90mm terminates. We are about 300m away from this on the private supply pipe.

[scottishjohn]

7 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

They only guarantee it at the bottom of the site where the 90mm terminates. We are about 300m away from this on the private supply pipe.

correct

that,s why you need good pump and suitable size break tank to lift it up  to your storage tank 

If you already have your tank  at the top --then i can see why you don,t want to change it-

 but then that means all chalets rely on gravity --is that correct ?

your 90mm runs from mains to your header tank?

 then what size run from tank to chalets 

 and what size is the mains coming to site 25mm ,32mm ?

you should never have zero flow from mains to fill break tank-if so then it is thier problem 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by scottishjohn

[iSelfBuild]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

correct

that,s why you need good pump and suitable size break tank to lift it up  to your storage tank 

If you already have your tank  at the top --then i can see why you don,t want to change it-

 but then that means all chalets rely on gravity --is that correct ?

your 90mm runs from ains to your header tank?

 then what size run from tank to chalets 

 and what size is the mains coming to site 25mm ,32mm ?

 

90mm mains coming to the site. This is where they guarantee 1 bar pressure. There is a few fire hydrants which branch off this 90mm mains.

 

Then the header tank is fed by a 32mm mains pressure pipe and then a 32mm pumped pipe (in back up)

 

The chalets rely on gravity yep, it's a fair old instant drop from the upper site to the lower. I think it comes down from the header tank in 50mm all the way down and branches off to each challet plot in 32mm.

[scottishjohn]

re-reading your fist post  do you mean your chalets do not have thier own deicated supply direct from water board  EG you pay water board for supply ,but you are connected to another scheme

 If so then your problem will be there --not enough volume  and how far down the hill is the REAL water board connection where the meter is

 

[scottishjohn]

4 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

There is a few fire hydrants which branch off this 90mm mains.

so this cannot be your own direct connection to mains  then -but a sub connection on another system

not sure what use the fire hydrants are going to be if you loose pressure .

how far to get your own dedicated supply not ocnnected to anybody else?

 and if only 25m head from your storage tank  then max pressure at lowest chalet will be 2,5bar static pressure -7 chalets pulling off that sounds like possible problems to me 

 If Ihave read your system correctly 

then the solution is move 2700litre to bottom as the break tank -then a decent pump and raise line pressure from there onwards 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by scottishjohn

[iSelfBuild]

4 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

re-reading your fist post  do you mean your chalets do not have thier own deicated supply direct from water board  EG you pay water board for supply ,but you are connected to another scheme

 If so then your problem will be there --not enough volume  and how far down the hill is the REAL water board connection where the meter is

 

I think it's about 300m from the 90mm Scotish water mains to our sites - there is no meter down there though. They are just metering it at each property where they take it out of the header tank.

[iSelfBuild]

3 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

so this cannot be your own direct connection to mains  then -but a sub connection on another system

not sure what use the fire hydrants are going to be if you loose pressure .

how far to get your own dedicated supply not ocnnected to anybody else?

 

There is fire hydrants at the bottom branching off the 90mm mains.

 

Then there is fire hydrants branching off the downward supply pipe off the header tank opposite our plots. Never liked the whole set up to be honest and I had no involvement in it's design.

 

It would be about 300m, but it's pointless to do anything else now. It works well both on the pumped header tank system and on our mains flow (sporadic flow and low pressure - but then held in tank in the lodge and pressurised system)

[scottishjohn]

7 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

They are just metering it at each property

who are THEY 

I still get the feeling that you are not the only user of this supply you have 7 chalets --how many others pulling from it 

and the 300m from scottish water stop tap and main meter --how  much lower is that  and what dia pipe is coming to the tobywhere the water board meter is --maybe its only 50mm coming in then going to 90mm

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by scottishjohn

[iSelfBuild]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

who are THEY 

Istill get the feeling that you are not the only user of this supply you have 7 chalets --how many others pulling from it 

and the 300m from scottish water stop tap and mian meter --how  much lower is that 

 

Scottish Water.

 

There is 7 chalets on the pumped header scheme. Then 1 chalet (my parents on just the mains flow pipework)

 

So 300mm from the 90mm mains, all the way up to the header tank. 25m head.

 

Then each plot is at varied distance from the header tank with at least 10m of head of pressure from the header tank.

[scottishjohn]

so you pay sottish water for the metered water from the main conection where their meter is and its 90mm after that  and no other connection except your parents house come from the main supply -it then goes to break tank where you then pump it up to your storage tank -

or do you have no pump and mains pressure feed the storage tank at top of hill

If so then that your problem at minimumpressure -1bar- it won,t get up to tank 

10m head is only 1bar of pressure --so if 1bar they won,t get good showers and if all 7 get up at sme time pressure wil be very bad

 you could make it beter by fitting accumlators in each chalet which will hold the pressure up for longer 

 

 

[iSelfBuild]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

so you pay sottish water for the metered water from the main conection where their meter is and its 90mm after that  and no other connection except your parents house come from the main supply -it then goes to break tank where you then pump it up to your storage tank -

or do you have no pump and mains pressure feed the storage tank at top of hill

If so then that your problem at minimumpressure -1bar- it won,t get up to tank 

10m head is only 1bar of pressure --so if 1bar they won,t get good showers and if all 7 get up at sme time pressure wil be very bad

 you could make it beter by fitting accumlators in each chalet which will hold the pressure up for longer 

 

 

 

Nope.

 

90mm comes into the site, no meters what so ever. 

 

This stops in 90mm as soon as it comes into the site.

 

It then comes off in 32mm supply pipes (from memory)

 

One comes off into a break tank for the pumped supply to the header, one just comes off for the mains supply to the header - which it also tees off at my parents plot for their supply.

 

Absolutely no meters on any of that.

 

Not sure what the pressure is rated at on the header tank system, I have stayed in my neighbours chalet once and it was not terrible but not high pressured for sure. My parents 700 litre tank and pump - we can set that all the way up to 9 bar pressure so works pretty great in my opinion. I'm likely going to fit a dab e sybox mini in my log cabin if the pressure is not great when I test it. (My log cabin is served off the header tank system) there is no issue with flow and the pressure seems OK, but haven't tested it with a gauge yet.

 

The only place SW are putting meters are where it feeds into each plot boundary.

 

 

[scottishjohn]

I must be thick or something 

SW do not get involved in private pumped systems or anyhting with a break tank  and what to do all plumbing up to their meters .

 you say there is no meter on the main connection at site boundary -which would imply its a domestic supply 

but it is 90mm both sides of the main shut off boundary valve 

then someone has dropped it to 32mm from then on which no doubt suppies the hydrants -If hyrdrants were part of the planning requirement  thats why it was 90mm mains supply 

I have never heard of meters being fitted by SW to anything other than their supply pipework as they would have to maintain meters and pipework 

something wierd going on 

 last reply to this  and i can see why you don,t want to ask SW to look at it

 

 

[iSelfBuild]

10 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I must be thick or something 

SW do not get involved in private pumped systems or anyhting with a break tank  and what to do all plumbing up to their meters .

 you say there is no meter on the main connection at site boundary -which would imply its a domestic supply 

but it is 90mm both sides of the main shut off boundary valve 

then someone has dropped it to 32mm from then on which no doubt suppies the hydrants -If hyrdrants were part of the planning requirement  thats why it was 90mm mains supply 

I have never heard of meters being fitted by SW to anything other than their supply pipework as they would have to maintain meters and pipework 

something wierd going on 

 last reply to this  and i can see why you don,t want to ask SW to look at it

 

 

To be honest John, I don't think anyone up there knows what's going on and that includes SW and me!

 

The supply comes from the farm so that could be why it's 90mm?

 

No the Hydrants at the lower part are directly off the 90mm.

 

Aditional hydrants at the top of the site... I'm guessing that's coming off a 50mm from the header tank.

 

 

 

 

[scottishjohn]

7 hours ago, iSelfBuild said:

Aditional hydrants at the top of the site... I'm guessing that's coming off a 50mm from the header tank.

just hope the fire brigade don,t come and do a test on them