Door gap width.. I'm confused

[puntloos]

So I'm trying to understand how much 'gap' to design in my house, to fit a certain size door into. In particular,:
 

- Centor 405 - 3-panel bifold door [brochure] [architectural drawings] [1m30 youtube video]

- Panel width 838mm ideally (accessibility reasons, not a requirement for us but nice idea)

 

As can be seen below, any cm further we move the (load bearing, can't remove it, but can move it..) pillar to the left of seating, will impede our viewing of the garden. The little square in the corner is a rear surround speaker, which ideally I'd also like to protect from being bumped into so a bit of door frame is probably a good idea too..

 

In theory I need 2514mm gap for 3x838.

But 

a/ Hinges etc - do they take space that takes away from the actual effective door width? I suspect not (or negligible at least, maybe a few mm)

b/ The frame, and how it is embedded into the wall. This is the part I'm fuzzy on.

 

As can be seen from [architectural drawings of centor 405] - bottom right  - the cassette for the blackout/bug screen is 160mm, but which part of that can actually fit in the wall (and therefore not count toward the gap I'm designing), and which part is outside? Top right says 'overall frame' vs 'visible frame' with 110 indicated.. so I suspect that the visible frame is only 50mm, and *then* the door panels start? -> 2514+50+50 = 2614mm "gap" is sufficient for 838mm panels?

 

What do you think?

Edited July 1, 2020 by puntloos

[joe90]

From their drawing I also believe 110mm of the screen box could be sunk into the wall but the depth of “sunk” depends on where you mount the frame within the wall depth!.so your builders opening (viewed from the outside) will be “visible frame” dimension plus “wiggle” room to pack the frame square and central, say 10mm each side?. Might be best to get this clarified with the manufacturer.

Edited July 1, 2020 by joe90

[puntloos]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

From their drawing I also believe 110mm of the screen box could be sunk into the wall but the depth of “sunk” depends on where you mount the frame within the wall depth!.so your builders opening (viewed from the outside) will be “visible frame” dimension plus “wiggle” room to pack the frame square and central, say 10mm each side?. Might be best to get this clarified with the manufacturer.

 

It doesn't have to be *too* exacting, I just don't want to dramatically underestimate. It seems to me that the visible parts of the door system need about 2514mm + 220mm ("visible frame") max, and the rest is hidden inside the wall.. so if I spec a 2.8m gap in my drawings then I certainly will not run into trouble trying to fit those 3 panels, right?

[joe90]

@puntloos what is you’re wall makeup, brick, block, TF? If brick like me you have to get it right as you don’t want to add or subtract on nice brickwork, if rendered not such a problem. If it were me I would order the opening size you want (visible frame) as I guess they are made to order looking at the brochure then you don’t have to second guess gaps, hinges etc. You talk about load bearing pillar, can you chop you’re blind box (160mm) into that with no problem?

[puntloos]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

@puntloos what is you’re wall makeup, brick, block, TF?

The house will likely be Timber Frame, but we haven't really made up our mind on what the 'shell' should look like. I imagine we'd be fine with any sensible surface with good u-values, definitely not planning to have some 'brick' pattern.

 

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

If brick like me you have to get it right as you don’t want to add or subtract on nice brickwork, if rendered not such a problem. If it were me I would order the opening size you want (visible frame) as I guess they are made to order looking at the brochure then you don’t have to second guess gaps, hinges etc.

Correct, made to order. I guess I'm so new to this whole construction thing that I don't know how this "actually" works. Does the TF company create a wall with the hole, does the main contractor 'fill it' with cardboard, and then cut out the gap, and then the door company comes in?

 

Aaanyway no need necessarily to explain - I'm sure there are sensible processes for this.

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

You talk about load bearing pillar, can you chop you’re blind box (160mm) into that with no problem?

 

Well that's the thing isn't it - the pillar needs to be sufficiently large to fit a bunch of things - the blind box, drain pipes from the two bathrooms above, and then the actual weight of the house (1 floor, then attic). So whatever width that needs to be.. my current design is a random guess. 

 

How much do you think is needed for it?

[joe90]

16 minutes ago, puntloos said:

How much do you think is needed for it?

I am not an SE and I didn’t realise you are still at the planning stage. I would give you’re timber frame co. You’re requirements and give them the details of the doors you want and they will design the structure for you. 

[puntloos]

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am not an SE and I didn’t realise you are still at the planning stage. I would give you’re timber frame co. You’re requirements and give them the details of the doors you want and they will design the structure for you. 

 

  well I didn't mean "just you" but really the whole of buildhub!

 

The key factor for me is that (with some tolerances) I want the door, and the pillar together, to be both large enough, yet as far back as possible as to not occlude my view of the garden, hence me playing with the parameters now rather than 'letting the chips fall where they may..'

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, puntloos said:

letting the chips fall where they may..'

No, this is where you have to convey to the TF company what you want and that includes

3 minutes ago, puntloos said:

I want the door, and the pillar together, to be both large enough, yet as far back as possible as to not occlude my view of the garden,

I find too many people let their architect dictate what they design, they will soon tell you what can’t be done.

[puntloos]

14 hours ago, joe90 said:

No, this is where you have to convey to the TF company what you want and that includes

 

I find too many people let their architect dictate what they design, they will soon tell you what can’t be done.

 

Yep, agreed. Thank you for taking a look at the plans, I think my understanding is now reasonably clear, and we'll be sure the architect implements this as discussed.