Fencing help

[daiking]

There is a conventional concrete post and wood panel fence between us and next door. Problem is that it’s only 3 foot high. I would like to have something taller at one end of the fence to give us a bit more privacy. I’ve marked the intended outline in red in the photo. This is approx. 6m long and 2m high.

 

The existing fence appears to be in the neighbours land and I’m not interested in the work of removing the old one and replacing. I’d just like to put something simple a little on our side of the boundary.

 

Simple being to use the existing wooden post one the left in the paved area and installing the posts (wooden or concrete) in the bed behind the small laurels. Filling with this style fence panel.

 

https://www.sheds.co.uk/hartwood-6-x-6-double-sided-slatted-pressure-treated-fence-panel.html
 

So, I need:

 

Something to dig very deep holes (I have a manual Auger)

Some fence posts (2.7-3m long)

Some post-crete

some gravel boards  

Some nice fence panels

 

My concerns are:

 

1) Trying to get posts perfectly vertical, all the same height and a correct fence panel width apart ?

 

2) Concrete or wooden posts? I’d prefer wood as it’s lighter and can be adjusted and modified but more susceptible to rot.

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by daiking

[Ferdinand]

Just floating a few ideas:

 

I am not capable of putting in a concrete fencepost on my own; they will weight up to a hundredweight.

 

Have you a solution for doing that safely?

 

If you use wooden ones, perhaps use some PostSavers (best direct from the manufacturer).

 

Because I am a little lazy I would look, depending on circs, at putting a couple of bigger ones in the existing fence first. Not optimal, but potentially much easier.

 

TBH i am not sure I would be able to handle the fence panels on my own, either. Certainly not ones the weight of the last ones I had.

 

Have you considered doing it with high quality timber posts and featheredge boards? One alternative.

 

I bought one of those post-hole diggers for my last fence, and I think it was one from Amazon that only cost under £30.

 

F

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Declan52]

A spirit level will get them plumb.

A string line along the bottom 1/3 will keep them in line. 

Another string line along the top will keep the heights the same. Set the post in the hole and move it till it hits the string at the top. If it needs to go down more dig more out. If it needs to go up put some more earth back in and ram it down with the post till it's where it needs to be.

Put the first post in at a height that suits your fence panel with a 1/3 of the hole filled with dryish postcrete, just enough to hold it in place but not wet enough to start it to set, check plumb and it's where it needs to be to be inline with the rest. Once your happy fill the hole up and that's it done.

Put a stake in at the far end so you can put a string line from the first post to the stake so all you posts are in line.

You will need a piece of timber the same size as your panel. Put your timber on the first post then lay it down so you see where your next hole has to go. And then repeat till you get to your last hole. This has to be done accurate otherwise you will get to the last post and your panel won't fit!!!.

Follow the first hole steps and set your depth to suit your fence panel height. 

You will have now a post at the start and end both firmly fixed in place. 

You can then attach the string to the top and using both string lines it will be in line and the same height. You will just double check with a level for plumb as you set each post in the hole.

Wooden fence posts are much easier to lift. Concrete ones last longer. It's your choice.

[daiking]

5 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Just floating a few ideas:

 

I am not capable of putting in a concrete fencepost on my own; they will weight up to a hundredweight.

 

Have you a solution for doing that safely?

 

If you use wooden ones, perhaps use some PostSavers (best direct from the manufacturer).

 

Because I am a little lazy I would look, depending on circs, at putting a couple of bigger ones in the existing fence first. Not optimal, but potentially much easier.

 

TBH i am not sure I would be able to handle the fence panels on my own, either. Certainly not ones the weight of the last ones I had.

 

Have you considered doing it with high quality timber posts and featheredge boards? One alternative.

 

I bought one of those post-hole diggers for my last fence, and I think it was one from Amazon that only cost under £30.

 

F

 

Yes, weight is the issue as I need long ones, at least 50kg for a 9’ post. Just me and wife. 
 

And she has decided she wants the contemporary slatted look. 
And following on from the fence, the bit with the barrow (up to the first laurel) will have a small decking area and on that there will be a 4 wheelie bin compound (local council gives us 3 x 240l and a 140l wheelie bins ?).

 

And only them will I be in position to do the pergola I asked about last year... Got a drainage problem to sort for that ? but one thing at a time now I’ve thought it through.

[daiking]

5 hours ago, Declan52 said:

A spirit level will get them plumb.

A string line along the bottom 1/3 will keep them in line. 

Another string line along the top will keep the heights the same. Set the post in the hole and move it till it hits the string at the top. If it needs to go down more dig more out. If it needs to go up put some more earth back in and ram it down with the post till it's where it needs to be.

Put the first post in at a height that suits your fence panel with a 1/3 of the hole filled with dryish postcrete, just enough to hold it in place but not wet enough to start it to set, check plumb and it's where it needs to be to be inline with the rest. Once your happy fill the hole up and that's it done.

Put a stake in at the far end so you can put a string line from the first post to the stake so all you posts are in line.

You will need a piece of timber the same size as your panel. Put your timber on the first post then lay it down so you see where your next hole has to go. And then repeat till you get to your last hole. This has to be done accurate otherwise you will get to the last post and your panel won't fit!!!.

Follow the first hole steps and set your depth to suit your fence panel height. 

You will have now a post at the start and end both firmly fixed in place. 

You can then attach the string to the top and using both string lines it will be in line and the same height. You will just double check with a level for plumb as you set each post in the hole.

Wooden fence posts are much easier to lift. Concrete ones last longer. It's your choice.

Cheers for the tips, obvs I got a level and other basic tools but only a laser for hanging pictures. I don’t think I’ve ever got anything straight or level but for this it really matters. I may even splash on a post level.

 

Before I order anything I’ve got to dig the post holes really. There are council slab retainers, tree stumps, roots and all sorts along there. It might be beyond me to start with.
 

In the photo, the swing ball is about where the end post would be and further down you can see where the fence kinks back into the boundary.

[Ferdinand]

44 minutes ago, daiking said:

Yes, weight is the issue as I need long ones, at least 50kg for a 9’ post. Just me and wife. 
 

And she has decided she wants the contemporary slatted look. 
And following on from the fence, the bit with the barrow (up to the first laurel) will have a small decking area and on that there will be a 4 wheelie bin compound (local council gives us 3 x 240l and a 140l wheelie bins ?).

 

And only them will I be in position to do the pergola I asked about last year... Got a drainage problem to sort for that ? but one thing at a time now I’ve thought it through.

 

You can make it a bit easier by digging a wedge out on one side of the hole and slide the post down that - it saves you lifting it the full 9ft.

 

Then wedge a brick or two or a plank in whilst the Postcrete sets, then backfill.

 

IIRC that's how Ug built stonehenge.

 

Ferdinand

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Remembering, just having been out in the garden and looking at them, you can use 1.2m fence repair spurs (they come with bolt holes) and bolt wooden posts to them clear of the ground. Which solves all the rot problems and will give you a 25 year fence.

 

This is a pub car park and uses wooden posts bolted onto fencing repair spurs. 

 

 

I do the similar thing with 1.8m posts, but cannot find the pics at present.

 

That would solve all of your weight handling problems.

 

F

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[daiking]

16 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Remembering, just having been out in the garden and looking at them, you can use 1.2m fence repair spurs (they come with bolt holes) and bolt wooden posts to them clear of the ground. Which solves all the rot problems and will give you a 25 year fence.

 

This is a pub car park and uses wooden posts bolted onto fencing repair spurs. 

 

 

I do the similar thing with 1.8m posts, but cannot find the pics at present.

 

That would solve all of your weight handling problems.

 

F

 

That is as ugly as sin but not something I’d thought of. Thanks.

[Ferdinand]

28 minutes ago, daiking said:

That is as ugly as sin but not something I’d thought of. Thanks.

 

That one is ugly, but it is where the idea came from. Here is one of mine from Streetview.

 

 

These are on display so I overspaced the posts by about 25-50mm for the bolt, which leaves a gap between the panels which I can then cover with a cosmetic batten which matches the fence panel slats - so the concrete fence repair spur is completely hidden from the good side. And still get to both ends of the bolt if necessary, easily.

 

The panels were done 25-50mm clear of the ground, and then extra depth of gravel was added to cover the gap. These are hit and miss panels to allow the wind to blow through.

 

The post heights were trimmed, and the posts capped later.

 

The offset one to the right is because the neighbour has reinforced foundations over the boundary, and was then trimmed to just below the panel height.

 

(Just in case you think of those sort of panels - they were bloody heavy. With two of us moving them I had to have rests because my fingers wilted. But the fence was built by my handyman; a very good job.)

 

Update: thinking about it we may even have used threaded rod and two nuts.

 

F 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[joe90]

I hate fence panels, but have provided customers with feather edge board fences and IMO they are much better. I like the short concrete post to bolt a wooden post too! You’re not stuck with 6’ modules and your posts don’t have to be exactly 6’ apart. ( but vertical!). Once the posts and rails are fitted you can fit whatever you ( the missus) likes to the face?

[Ferdinand]

10 hours ago, joe90 said:

I hate fence panels, but have provided customers with feather edge board fences and IMO they are much better. I like the short concrete post to bolt a wooden post too! You’re not stuck with 6’ modules and your posts don’t have to be exactly 6’ apart. ( but vertical!). Once the posts and rails are fitted you can fit whatever you ( the missus) likes to the face?

 

In this case drivers on the decision for panels was speed / uniformity, but also there is a path down the RHS past the leanto for rear garden access, which is 1.2m to allow a digger through.

 

So for machinery access at useful-digger (as opposed to toy digger) size I can just take one panel down. That would not be doable with a bespoke fence, and I did not want the complication of a second gate (the fence is set forward of the house with a foot gate at right angles).

 

Also the logical destination for the house is to have a big extension where that fence is, but that won't be for some years - so a fence like this can be dismantled and taken away to use somewhere else except for the  concrete repair spurs.

 

F

Edited April 28, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Just to wrap up my contribution here, here is a piccie of what he back of one of the wooden post bolted to fencing spur fences looks like.

 

Ths is in my own garden. The neighbour has the good side here; I’m not worried because it is at the end of the garden behind a fruit frame with a blackberry. Not especially happy tat he stained his side mind, but it was paid for 50:50.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

14 hours ago, joe90 said:

I hate fence panels, but have provided customers with feather edge board fences and IMO they are much better. I like the short concrete post to bolt a wooden post too! You’re not stuck with 6’ modules and your posts don’t have to be exactly 6’ apart. ( but vertical!). Once the posts and rails are fitted you can fit whatever you ( the missus) likes to the face?

 

 

Exactly what we've used, both on top of the retaining wall and as 1.8m high fencing around the garden.  The flexibility to make it fit with the space is the really big advantage, as was the fact that I found that it was possible to make a curved fence, by partly sawing through the rear of the trapezoidal (rather than triangular) arris rails, squirting glue in the saw cuts and then bending the rails to the required curve before the glue cures.  The result is a fence that follows the curve of the low wall at the top of our drive.

 

 

[daiking]

15 hours ago, joe90 said:

I hate fence panels, but have provided customers with feather edge board fences and IMO they are much better. I like the short concrete post to bolt a wooden post too! You’re not stuck with 6’ modules and your posts don’t have to be exactly 6’ apart. ( but vertical!). Once the posts and rails are fitted you can fit whatever you ( the missus) likes to the face?

I am not opposed to a scratch build but am trying to achieve a particular look and although panels are not cheap at £100 each they’re actually cheaper than trying to make that style myself - even if I were skilled enough to achieve it. I want a narrow horizontal hit and miss appearance with privacy so I need front and back timber ?. Even if I did a simple feather edge design on the rear it’s still ££££. ?‍♂️

[Mr Punter]

If you concrete in the timber posts, slightly overfill the hole and haunch the concrete up the base of the post so it helps shed the water and slows down rot.

[daiking]

This is doing my box in. Posts are the least of my worries. Panels are an awkward size that come up short.  Reasonably priced raw materials for a diy approach don’t seem to exist and if they did there would be delivery for weeks and weeks.

 

If anyone knows where I can find some smooth, treated timber, 35-50mm wide, 20mm deep or so for external use at much less than £1/m (I need 300m+ initially), I’m all ears.

 

And I would still need to double up on something to provide the necessary level of privacy, grrrrr.

 

[Dave Jones]

i use 3 x 2 treated and 2.4 100x100 wooden posts to make our closeboard fence. None of it weighs a ton and all pretty cheap from any builders merchant. 

[bassanclan]

My father in law's lockdown project was making us a picket fence out of old pallets.

 

It sounds like you need tiling battens, but watch out for them being dyed. If by smooth you mean planed as opposed to sawn timber, I think you are going overboard for a fence!

[Onoff]

19 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

My father in law's lockdown project was making us a picket fence out of old pallets.

 

It sounds like you need tiling battens, but watch out for them being dyed. If by smooth you mean planed as opposed to sawn timber, I think you are going overboard for a fence!

 

Cheaper than my local timber merchant by a little bit are your prices but same ballpark. @daiking needs to shop around I guess.

 

Ex VAT:

 

Oddly enough, the other yard, 10 miles away, prices include VAT:

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Onoff

[daiking]

17 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

i use 3 x 2 treated and 2.4 100x100 wooden posts to make our closeboard fence. None of it weighs a ton and all pretty cheap from any builders merchant. 

 

15 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

My father in law's lockdown project was making us a picket fence out of old pallets.

 

It sounds like you need tiling battens, but watch out for them being dyed. If by smooth you mean planed as opposed to sawn timber, I think you are going overboard for a fence!

Thanks but I’m trying to build a

contemporary fence as a design feature, hence smooth planed narrow slats. Tile battens are a workable size but just aren’t good enough quality. I’ve got a link to some PSE 44x19 on my laptop but they don’t deliver to me.

 

Something like this, approx 11m long rather than 5.5m and painted battle ship grey

Edited May 6, 2020 by daiking

[daiking]

12 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Cheaper than my local timber merchant by a little bit are your prices but same ballpark. @daiking needs to shop around I guess.

 

Ex VAT:

 

Tell me about it. You search for cheap timber but then find you're out of their deliver area not that deliveries are easy to get at the mo.

[Onoff]

Have you tried a Selco near you?

 

Tile battens alright. Whack it up and give it a sand over. Put the worst face towards your neighbour.

[bassanclan]

Where do you need them delivered to?

https://www.nwtt.co.uk/ex-50mm-x-25mm-planed-all-round-redwood

[bassanclan]

If you have the yime you could sand tiling laths, but it would take forever for 300mm. 

 

Personally I would try a length of PSE from wickes etc and a length of tiling batten and see if they really look that different once painted, it will be about half the price.

 

Or buy panels and then diy a final small section if the sizes don't fit your space exactly

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292756948697

Local merchants should be able to provide panels cheaper and if you can find an actual fence manufacturer they will make it to size

[Ferdinand]

I can point you to my local independent, who do deliver nationally and do do things custom. Ron Currie's.

 

Prices are usually OK, but I think that you will struggle for treated PSE, and delivery from NG17 to Manchester may slug it. The way might be to treat it yourself in a dipping bath made from planks and a hunk of DPC polythene.

 https://roncurrie.co.uk/

 

F

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ferdinand