Olly P

HSE notification Form F10 / CDM 2015 etc

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At the moment I am setting up site, clearing ground, making parking/turning area as per planning conditions etc. I am in the process of securing site insurance, site facilities toilet/brew room etc and I have heras fencing securing the site. 

 

I am wanting to make sure that I have everything in place in regards to H&S and I'm led to believe by a developer that I need to notify HSE of the commencement via a form F10 . However when I looked on the HSE website the criteria states that the works needs to exceed 20 people on site at one time ( I can't see this happening) and exceed 500 working person days (again I would think my project will be done within this timeframe), to require a f10 to be sent in. 

 

So I'm confident this is not required for my self build unless told otherwise. 

 

I'm still confused with how to adhere with the CDM2015 rules. I have downloaded the app wizard but in my opinion it is not designed for self builds. 

 

Although i will be using some contractors during the build, I will be doing the project managing and a lot of the work my self, so in my opinion I am the "principal contractor". (??)  But I am also the "domestic client". 

 

I'm confident that I don't need a design contractor as the planning is approved. 

 

What has everyone else done with CDM 2015?

 

Confused!! 

 

 

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Can of worms was a long discussion here some time ago do a search for cdm here. Basically not many self builders bother with this but dyor 

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11 minutes ago, Olly P said:

 ...I'm led to believe by a developer that I need to notify HSE of the commencement via a form F10...

 

Although i will be using some contractors during the build, I will be doing the project managing and a lot of the work my self, so in my opinion I am the "principal contractor". (??)  But I am also the "domestic client". 

 

I'm confident that I don't need a design contractor as the planning is approved. 

 

You are out of scope of CDM2015, and you do not need to advise HSE...

 

 

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The 500 working days is total working days.

You could have 1 guy work 501 days, have 5guys working 101days- which if you think about it does 5 guys working for 3 months seem a realistic time scale for your build?

 

What you may have to do is ask all your subcontractors estimated number of poeple on site per day and proposed amount of working days.

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As above, if you are a self builder, CDM does not apply.  F10 would not apply anyway.

 

Make sure your contractors do their own risk assessments, are fully insured and supervise their own workers.  If anything is requested (alter scaffold, supply electric etc.) make sure it is done but that is is still up to your contractors to verify that it is safe.

 

HSE are not interested unless something goes wrong.

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Posted (edited)

I understand the CDM situation, thanks to @AnonymousBosch's great post.  But I'm unclear why a couple of people seem confident that the F10 does not apply if you are a self-builder..

 

Quote

A project is notifiable if it:
1) Lasts longer than 30 working days and have more than 20 workers working at the same time.  (unlikely I assume)
or
2) exceed 500 person days

 

While a lot of self-build project won't meet criteria 1), most will meet criteria 2).  As even if you only have 4 people on site typically, that's only 4 months.

 

Is there anything anywhere that says self-builders don't need to submit an F10.  For anyone that's submitted one, have you put yourself as the main contractor?

 

Edited by Dan Feist

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7 hours ago, Dan Feist said:

...

Is there anything anywhere that says self-builders don't need to submit an F10.  For anyone that's submitted one, have you put yourself as the main contractor?

...

Quote

You must now enter the details for the client, principal designer and principal contractor.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/forms/notification/f10.htm

In my unqualified opinion,  the quotation from the HSE site above could have been worded more clearly to read

 

You must now enter the details for the DOMESTIC client, principal designer and principal contractor

 

In other words, if an F10 is to be submitted at all, acting for a DOMESTIC client, the contractor should complete the form FOR the Domestic Client.

 

And later on the same page 

Quote

Who must notify HSE

If the client is a:

  • commercial client, then they must notify HSE
  • domestic client – notification must be carried out by the:
    • contractor (or principal contractor if there is more than one contractor)
    • principal designer where there is a written agreement that they will carry out the client’s duties

 

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@AnonymousBosch So a "domestic client" doesn't need to notify HSE directly.  But if there isn't a main contractor then the self-builder, acting as the principal contractor, still needs to notify HSE is how I understand it.

 

So in my case, I would need to notifiy and put my details for both i) client and ii) principal contractor I'm assuming

 

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You are a Domestic Client.  My reading of that status means that no duty is imposed on you. I am not an expert  (except at cocking it up) 

 

It would be informative to ask the HSE what their opinion is.

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