Fixed, Top Hung and Split Windows and Colour - Disagreement

[canalsiderenovation]

I'm analyzing quotes for our triple glazing and although I love the slimmer profile of Ideal Combi the Internorm aluclad PVC is tempting though more expensive and I'm struggling with the frame thickness.

 

Although me and the other half are in agreement on top hung windows, it's about the only thing we agree on! 

 

We have a few fixed one pane picture windows no bar in the middle. Two of these, e.g. in the kitchen and living area measure 2400*1050 and I don't know if they would look a bit odd with no 'bar' in the middle (even though they are fixed).

 

Then the windows that do open, the other half wants just one top hung window that opens, e.g. no split 'bar' (I don't know the technical name). It's not a problem for the smaller windows but no company has priced up for this on the larger windows and I don't know if they do it, e.g. can you have an 1810*1200 window as one whole opening or would this need to be split into two with one fixed side and one top hung opening (Ideal Combi and Internorm have split this into two)? I can't help but think it would look a bit odd if they all had the appearance of picture windows with no bar bit in the middle. 

 

Has anyone had just one frame top hung openers? If so pictures would be great.

 

And if that wasn't enough, I think white windows would be better inside the other half wants 7016 as our large sliders would likely be anthracite inside as would the rooflights ? 

 

What have you all got inside? Do you find if you have anthracite inside it dominates the inside walls a bit?

 

 

[Temp]

1 hour ago, canalsiderenovation said:

can you have an 1810*1200 window as one whole opening or would this need to be split into two with one fixed side and one top hung opening

 

Perhaps too heavy for the hinge friction mechanism? eg slides down and open on its own when unlocked?

Perhaps wide windows may not stay parallel to the ground? eg one side may open more than the other?  

 

google found..

 

 https://www.iqglassuk.com/storage/documents/Passiv-Haus-Windows-and-Doors-Product-Information-IQ-Glass.pdf

 

Configurations Available

Windows Fixed / Tilt and Turn / Side Hung / Top Hung / Bottom Hung (all inward opening)

Doors Inward Opening Casement Door / Sliding Door

Maximum and Minimum Sizes

Hinged Elements 3m2, height 0.4m—2.7m, width 0.6m—1.6m

Sliding Elements 4.3m2, height 1.8m—2.6m, width 1.6m—3.5m

 

snip

Maximum panel weight 90kg for hinged elements, 130kg for sliding elements

[AliG]

I had to dig out some elevations you posted earlier.

 

Almost every window in my house is a single unit. But almost every window is taller than it is wide. The only windows that are not taller than they are wide are split, so that the portions are taller than they are wide.

 

Looking at your elevations, your windows seem to generally be wider than they are tall and seem to be drawn as split up. I think this is the usual thing to do, indeed window elements wider than they are tall are very rare unless it is a slot shaped window. I also think it would look odd to have some that are single units and some that aren't as it would create a jarring mixture of ratios. In fact a window that is 2400x1050 might be better split into three which would give a similar ratio for each segment to a 1810x1200 window split into two.

 

If you want the 2400s to be single windows, then I would rather that they all kept a ratio of being wider than they are tall, but as you say I don't think you can get a single opener that size for the smaller windows.

 

 

Looking at Ideal Combi as a top hung window gets wider, its height starts to be limited. I suspect it is a weight issue as @Temp says. Triple glazed windows are very heavy. Rationel, which we have, lists the same maximum sizes with a weight limit.

 

I think the inside colour is just personal preference. Googling it, it didn't seem too bad if that's what you want. It may not go well with all colours.

[Russell griffiths]

You will definitely need to check on maximum allowable opening sizes for each make. 

We thought we would have 1800-900 top hung but found they where too heavy so had to reduce size to 1600-900. 

 

Have you remembered what I mentioned regarding ally clad upvc, in that the opening inside is white instead of anthracite, this was a deal breaker for us so didn’t go any further with internorm. 

[canalsiderenovation]

@AliG thanks. Yes one company had split up those windows into three which is a definite no according to the OH. Internorm had split them into two. There have been some minor tweaks to our windows which are as follows and on the plans below.

 

D2 Bedroom patio Door 1810*2100
D3 Large sliders on dining room 5555*2100 - ideally slim profile

 

Windows - triple glazed, I've noted openings

 

W1 Cloaks/Shower 915*1200 open 
W2 Bedroom Front 1810*1200 open
W3 Bedroom Rear ensuite 915*1200 open
W4 Office 1200*1050 open
W5 Corner window 910*2100 fixed
W6 Kitchen 2400*1050 fixed
W7 Living 2400*1050 fixed
W8 Living Rear 1500*1050 open
W9 Tall Hall 916*2000 fixed
W10 Dressing 1810*1200 open
W11 Master Bedroom 1810*1200 open
W12 Gym 1810*1200 open
Landing (x 2 windows) 650*1050 fixed

 

The windows facing the canal and that are next to one another W10, W11, W12 (see plan) I think are the ones which will have weight issues so I think we would have to split these up into two (not three). As w6 and w7 are on the same stretch I think we would have to do the same and also for w8 too as it's in the same room as w8.

 

I think the other windows could possibly be just single rather than split as they aren't on the same side so as long as they are consistent.

 

The alternative is just reduce window sizes although we are working with the existing window sizes for these windows.

 

@Russell griffithsggriffithsg yes I remember what you mention about inside colour for aluclad PVC which is another factor too but we are in battle about white or anthracite anyway. I think white will look sleeker, particularly if we end up with the thicker profile aluclad. Also if we end up with divisions in the middle I think white will be far better.

[canalsiderenovation]

I'm trying to clarify with Ideal Combi what their maximum width is to allow the single pane openings. I've a feeling the following opening windows will need to be reduced if we opt for single pane openings. It's just how much they need to reduce in size.....

 

W8 Living Rear 1500*1050 open
W10 Dressing 1810*1200 open
W11 Master Bedroom 1810*1200 open
W12 Gym 1810*1200 open

 

[Mr Punter]

If you download the Ideal Combi Architect catalogue you can look at the maximum dimensions for their entire range.

 

https://idealcombi.dk/Flippingbook/uk_2017_Architect-catalogue_WEB/

 

 

[canalsiderenovation]

5 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

If you download the Ideal Combi Architect catalogue you can look at the maximum dimensions for their entire range.

 

https://idealcombi.dk/Flippingbook/uk_2017_Architect-catalogue_WEB/

 

 

Thanks I'd just found that. I think those three windows I mentioned above would need to reduce from 1810 to 1600 in width. That isn't too bad....

[Mr Punter]

I have found that windows / doors that are close to the max size limits do not always operate as well as those that are not.

[canalsiderenovation]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

I have found that windows / doors that are close to the max size limits do not always operate as well as those that are not.

 

@Mr Punter is this a general observation or particular brand?

[Mr Punter]

Certainly noticed with Velfac and IdealCombi but I think it could be generally, as the max sizes are at the limit of the system.

[canalsiderenovation]

36 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Certainly noticed with Velfac and IdealCombi but I think it could be generally, as the max sizes are at the limit of the system.

 

Thanks - something to consider then. If we have an existing window opening that is too large and want to reduce size to have single pane openings is it cheaper to adjust the width or height, e.g. work involved for builder to do. Idealcombi have come back with a couple of options but in terms of work for the builder to do it would be useful to know which is cheaper to adjust.... width or height. 

 

Ideal Combi have said the maximum single pane triple glazed is1600*1390 so we would need to adjust our three windows 1810 width *1200 to 1600mm. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by canalsiderenovation

[Thorfun]

On 11/03/2020 at 14:49, canalsiderenovation said:

 

Ideal Combi have said the maximum single pane triple glazed is1600*1390 so we would need to adjust our three windows 1810 width *1200 to 1600mm. 

 

this is interesting as our windows include multiple of a larger size, including 2000x2100 single pane fixed windows and they've quoted for that size.

 

we've also got a 1800x2600 and other large windows. 

 

 

the only thing it seems they can't do is large width sliding doors.

[Mr Punter]

This is the size chart for the IdealCombi single light triple glazed Futura.  Probably similar for Velfac and Rationel.

 

You can get some mighty big windows from them.

 

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

This is the size chart for the IdealCombi single light triple glazed Futura.  Probably similar for Velfac and Rationel.

 

You can get some mighty big windows from them.

 

 

very useful, thanks @Mr Punter

[canalsiderenovation]

6 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

 

very useful, thanks @Mr Punter

 

Strange I got different information. I've decided on Internorm now instead.

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

Strange I got different information. I've decided on Internorm now instead.

we love the Internorm windows but at around 35% more expensive (not including the sliders as IC can't do the size we want) it's a hard decision to pay the extra! but we do love them. it might end up being one of those decisions where we pay the extra as I don't want to replace the windows ever so get it right first time. just another one of those decisions that need to be made at some point. 

[canalsiderenovation]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

we love the Internorm windows but at around 35% more expensive (not including the sliders as IC can't do the size we want) it's a hard decision to pay the extra! but we do love them. it might end up being one of those decisions where we pay the extra as I don't want to replace the windows ever so get it right first time. just another one of those decisions that need to be made at some point. 

 

There was less than £6k price difference for us and that included full fitting with Internorm (for their aluclad UPVC Studio product). As much as I want to save money it felt like the products were significantly better for the price difference. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by canalsiderenovation

[Thorfun]

if it was that little a difference it'd be a no brainer. although I've not yet seen the idealcombi windows we could tell that the Internorm windows were just very solid and good quality. before Covid-19 hit we attended a build show and saw many manufacturers and still came away thinking Internorm felt the best.

 

for us (we've got 42 windows which equate to 116m2 of glazing) the difference is about £15k. which buys a lot of other stuff! hence the dilemma. 

[canalsiderenovation]

30 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

if it was that little a difference it'd be a no brainer. although I've not yet seen the idealcombi windows we could tell that the Internorm windows were just very solid and good quality. before Covid-19 hit we attended a build show and saw many manufacturers and still came away thinking Internorm felt the best.

 

for us (we've got 42 windows which equate to 116m2 of glazing) the difference is about £15k. which buys a lot of other stuff! hence the dilemma. 

 

Crikey that's a lot of window cleaning!