Simplysimon Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 4 hours ago, zoothorn said: My bathroom is appaling for this (walls so cold) & my backdoor worst: fit a modern indoor bathroom, put in heating and keep your backdoor warm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Simplysimon said: fit a modern indoor bathroom, put in heating and keep your backdoor warm ? Just fitted a new bathroom 2 yrs ago, & put in a new backdoor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I'm wondering whether you put a 50mm slab of pir the width and length of the sill then over cap it with say good quality exterior ply that you could varnish? Is that a gap under the doors I can see?Got a better picture? There is a specific load bearing insulation type slab but its bloody expensive and I forget the name. You could maybe insert some 50mm deep supports into the pir here and there to give some support for the ply to bear on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 hours ago, zoothorn said: Just fitted a new bathroom 2 yrs ago, & put in a new backdoor! first backdoor transplant i've heard of ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Simplysimon said: first backdoor transplant i've heard of ? I don't like the sound of that.. sounds like a 'procedure'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 @Onoff that's as good an eg/ pic as is needed. No black gap, just some dpm lip coming up/ trimmed that off, & foiled the wood fwiw. Is it imperative I put even PIR on, can't it just be left as is > put on something/ not sure what ply is a good suggestion, but without insulating below it 1st? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, zoothorn said: @Onoff that's as good an eg/ pic as is needed. No black gap, just some dpm lip coming up/ trimmed that off, & foiled the wood fwiw. Is it imperative I put even PIR on, can't it just be left as is > put on something/ not sure what ply is a good suggestion, but without insulating below it 1st? This is why people get the ar5e with you! I ask for a better photo and you say no what's there is good enough! ? It's your opinion it's good enough for me! Let's be honest we're guessing as to the section through of that threshold unless you do a sketch. Any insulation would work I guess if packed in tight but you would need to support the timber top somehow with "blocks" or strips of timber here and there. I'd be taping all joints too where the door meets the surround. Tbh I'd expect foil tape to maybe split over time if used there as it's not got much give. Proper air tightness tape better. Best I guess in the absence of that is low expansion foam in any gaps, silicone then whatever tape; duct, foil etc. Edited March 22, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Onoff said: This is why people get the ar5e with you! I ask for a better photo and you say no what's there is good enough! ? It's your opinion it's good enough for me! Let's be honest we're guessing as to the section through of that threshold unless you do a sketch. Any insulation would work I guess if packed in tight but you would need to support the timber top somehow with "blocks" or strips of timber here and there. I'd be taping all joints too where the door meets the surround. Tbh I'd expect foil tape to maybe split over time if used there as it's not got much give. Proper air tightness tape better. Best I guess in the absence of that is low expansion foam in any gaps, silicone then whatever tape; duct, foil etc. I cannot take a better photo, I do not have a better photo. That is why I state "its good enough". Not from a lazy opinion.. but bc my old slr cameras unable to take a pic now, & I cannot afford another. esp right now. We're not guessing as to the section. As I said its just one layer of CLS (is it?), & a scrap of OSB whacked on (you can see in the pic, even if its in the btm RH corner.. its clearly two bits of wood). I was only wondering really if A) it needed to be insulated from a regs pov, & B) how this could be done. I mean the sill on the door below, into the workshop: my builder put in a slate sill, looks good. But its not got a fart of insulation under it, or air-tight xyz on. He couldn't have put slate onto anything but a solid piece of either block or timber anyway I would suggest, so this door sill wouldn't ever be insulated.. so why I ask myself would the sill to the door(s) upstairs would need to be? only difference is its 2 (narrow) doors opening, not 1. Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Onoff said: Any insulation would work I guess if packed in tight but you would need to support the timber top somehow with "blocks" or strips of timber here and there. I'm not quite getting the need to support the timber top. As far as I can tell, its a solid bit of CLS (all used seem to have been 140mm for the studs, but the base [the horizontals you can see generally around the pic] onto which this scrap of osb is screwed. That's it. If I could get the top off.. but I can't the huge screws are put in with lord knows what strong thing. If I get the top off, hack it off then angle grind the screws off (cant think how else to do).. then I have 140mm of CLS timber > then a gap of 100mm (presumably builder didn't put in any more timber here) > door frame. Edited March 22, 2020 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, zoothorn said: I'm not quite getting the need to support the timber top. As far as I can tell, its a solid bit of CLS (all used seem to have been 140mm for the studs, but the base [the horizontals you can see generally around the pic] onto which this scrap of osb is screwed. That's it. If I could get the top off.. but I can't the huge screws are put in with lord knows what strong thing. If I get the top off, hack it off then angle grind the screws off (cant think how else to do).. then I have 140mm of CLS timber > then a gap of 100mm (presumably builder didn't put in any more timber here) > door frame. Do not go hacking anything off! Not what I meant! I had the idea you want to bring the inner sill, the OSB covered bit, up a bit higher? I was thinking something like this. Excuse fag packet and poor sketch: Thing is I don't know if its necessary but I can't see a big chunk of insulating material there would be a bad thing. To help guard against cold bridging at that junction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Do not go hacking anything off! Not what I meant! I had the idea you want to bring the inner sill, the OSB covered bit, up a bit higher? I was thinking something like this. Excuse fag packet and poor sketch: Thing is I don't know if its necessary but I can't see a big chunk of insulating material there would be a bad thing. To help guard against cold bridging at that junction. Ok thanks alot for that.. I feel calmer when I get one of your sketches, its Onoff opium! theyre ace. Ok understand the idea better now. Only thing missing tho in 1st profile sketch, is that the cls isn't up to the line of the door frame: its 100mm short of it @ 140mm (sill as I call it is all of 240mm to the door frame, set FAR back so door can open out 180*). So I have a 100mm gap.. I assume so/ assuming he didn't fill it with timber too.. over which the osb is hiding. This is why I was gonna hack the fkr off. Actually I could drill thru osb top couldn't I & see if anything solid below, just thinking as I type my spiel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 14 hours ago, zoothorn said: Ok thanks alot for that.. I feel calmer when I get one of your sketches, its Onoff opium! theyre ace. Ok understand the idea better now. Only thing missing tho in 1st profile sketch, is that the cls isn't up to the line of the door frame: its 100mm short of it @ 140mm (sill as I call it is all of 240mm to the door frame, set FAR back so door can open out 180*). So I have a 100mm gap.. I assume so/ assuming he didn't fill it with timber too.. over which the osb is hiding. This is why I was gonna hack the fkr off. Actually I could drill thru osb top couldn't I & see if anything solid below, just thinking as I type my spiel. Where is the 100mm, from the top of the door frame to top of OSB? As per red arrows? What would really help is you holding a tape up and taking a photo! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 On 23/03/2020 at 13:54, Onoff said: Where is the 100mm, from the top of the door frame to top of OSB? As per red arrows? What would really help is you holding a tape up and taking a photo! ? Hi Onoff. my cam can barely take a pic anymore/ unreliable, or Id do just that.. sorry. No your red arrow is vertical. My red arrow would be on the osb top, horizontally, up to the frame.. & from a point 1/3rd lets call it back of the osb top's 240mm depth. So where my tripod leg's up ~50mm on the osb: bang under here is the 100mm gap. Because the TF walls are a constant 140mm in depth, everywhere, so is this 'base' layer of CLS timber. So if you took this osb bit off, the tripod leg would fall down over the end of the CLS, into gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Hi Onoff. my cam can barely take a pic anymore/ unreliable, or Id do just that.. sorry. No your red arrow is vertical. My red arrow would be on the osb top, horizontally, up to the frame.. & from a point 1/3rd lets call it back of the osb top's 240mm depth. So where my tripod leg's up ~50mm on the osb: bang under here is the 100mm gap. Because the TF walls are a constant 140mm in depth, everywhere, so is this 'base' layer of CLS timber. So if you took this osb bit off, the tripod leg would fall down over the end of the CLS, into gap. I sort of get it! Be nice to have that gap filled up with something "insulaty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 35 minutes ago, Onoff said: I sort of get it! Be nice to have that gap filled up with something "insulaty". Exactly.. but getting the sod off is nr impossible, for me. bigass screws/ massively torqued in. Isn't it though innevitable, that the threshold of most doorways are the 'weak point' & can only be "barriered" vs the cold up to a limited point. I mean my lower room door's is a slab of slate with a rebated groove ground into it for a door weatherbar stopper strip. There no way I can introduce any insulation here, nor, around the door's reveal either because I'm too limited for space to line it with anything around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Could you.....drill some bfo holes like 100mm dia and "flood" the cavity with low expansion foam or eps beads rammed in etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, Onoff said: Could you.....drill some bfo holes like 100mm dia and "flood" the cavity with low expansion foam or eps beads rammed in etc. I could.. but isn't this 100mm x 50mm (height) gap -the half nearest the frame specifically- a continuation of the wall cavity below though? IE you foam or bead into it.. & a 'never-ending' job ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 @Onoff hi Onoff. Can I just pick up on this idea you suggested/ & or what I can do with this 'step' threshold area. Looking at your sketch again, I see you proposed put the PIR -ontop- of the existing OSB topped 'step/ threshold'. Only problem doing this, is the additional 60mm (let's call it) height, up to same level as the lower door frame you step over as your sketch suggests.. is I'll be uncomfortably skimming my head on the top part of frame going in/ out the door stepping from this heightened step. Builder bought me the lowest door possible you see (yet another £save to him it seems / infuriating thing for me to contend with) @ 1.85m H within the actual frame. So my idea was to add this step area (he hastily/ as cheap as poss made in 5mins).. but not any higher. The reason for this added 60mm step/ threshold (as it is now), is because I had to ask him to position the doors UP a bit (because he made the whole build WRONG by 1+ fkn foot low, as Ive outlined many times, so I had to scrimp & claw back every 50mm I could at any possible juncture: in this case claw back a bit of balcony height.. by placing the doors UP a wee bit > so they'll skim the deck by mm's opening out. Countless ramifications of the build error.. continuously hampering me at every stage: the balcony build, the last job, being the most fraught with consequense if I cannot get it cm perfect. "Oh it'll be fine, what's the difference anyway?".. I'm still fuming with anger!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Why not actually try to remove the current step? There's no screw too big or tight to remove again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 On 02/04/2020 at 15:06, dpmiller said: Why not actually try to remove the current step? There's no screw too big or tight to remove again... I cannot get these BFO screws out dpmiller, not even shift 1mm round. I think I'll have to hack osb top off, hacksaw screws off.. but I'm wondering whether its better just to leave the damn thing as is & carpet over. Damn builder's overall 1ft extra depth bodge up.. causing endless problems: there should -never ever- be a sodding step here at all.. but I was forced to ask for it to claw back some balcony height > IE put doors up a step prior to building it. I dont have experience to know you see, how big an achilles heel this bloody step is re. possible cold ingress, to make the decision. Ok another angle to ask: if there was no step & the french doors were sitting on the floor level.. how would the floor continue into this recess area? & surely the last 50mm of it (before the door frame, covering the cavity below) wouldn't have any insulation directly below anyway. just the cavity. which is effectively what I have at the moment, bar my covering being osb & this imagined-floor being (presumably) more 22mm caberfloor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 what head is on the screws and what have you using to try and undo them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 17 hours ago, dpmiller said: what head is on the screws and what have you using to try and undo them? bigass '+', gold fella screw. I only got electricians red long s'driver that'll provide any torque.. not shifty a jiffy tho. I'll have to attack it with rage, hammers & very coarse language I think.. then redo it/ found some osb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 socket set plus PZ3 bit, nice long ratchet for loadsa torques? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, dpmiller said: socket set plus PZ3 bit, nice long ratchet for loadsa torques? And lots of pressure on the screw so it does not cam out and chew up the head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 On 07/04/2020 at 17:03, dpmiller said: socket set plus PZ3 bit, nice long ratchet for loadsa torques? Ah good idea this.. will do my best with what Ive got/ not exactly great nor a long whatnot. report back. Thanks dpm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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