DeeJunFan Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Mostly for Nick but anyone can chip in. Our upstairs had to be re-designed on the fly as the house worked out bigger than on the plans and we were trying to make use of the space. Long story short every little move had a knock on effect, and some things got missed. SO Our hotpress is now only 850mm deep by about 2m I was hoping to get extra insulation around my tank be it UVC or TS (Nick I havent decided yet) Will i be able to get extra insulation with only 850mm to play with? Will i be able to fit any sort of tank in 850mm (will all connections be able to be fitted on one face etc?) Cheers Damian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 OK so can you fully insulate the hotpress walls with 75mm of PIR insulation between the studs, in the ceiling and potentially under the floor..? That reduces the need for extra insulation on the tank. You can comfortably get a 300 litre UVC in that space then, Telford (other brands are available) will put the connections where you want them so you could line them up pretty much 11-1 on the front to give you some room to play with but its doable. Only issue will be where you put the expansion vessel as space will be tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 the walls are solid block so no go there. I will insulate the floor and the attic above. Hadn't though about the expansion vessels so Eeck! Also i'm really not sure what size of a tank i need but i would probably rather go with a 500L, but i might not have a choice! Alternative would be to put the tank the attic? Is this a thing people do?? Would trusses handle it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Have you looked at Sunamps as an option ? More expensive but small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Was thinking about it but i would most likely need 2 or a stack when they become available. And cost is driving decisions at the minute. I haven't really got to grips with how much heat/hot water we are going to need. And its causing a few sleepless nights at the moment among other things. I've been trying to decide ASHP or just immersion and at the moment i'm swinging to immersion only with PV. Not sure how easy it would be to retrofit an ASHP into that arrangement. There are 4 of us, so not major hot water usage. Likely will have occasional weekend visitors but shouldn't be much of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Don't forget to take into account the door frame width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, DeeJunFan said: Was thinking about it but i would most likely need 2 or a stack when they become available. And cost is driving decisions at the minute. I haven't really got to grips with how much heat/hot water we are going to need. And its causing a few sleepless nights at the moment among other things. I've been trying to decide ASHP or just immersion and at the moment i'm swinging to immersion only with PV. Not sure how easy it would be to retrofit an ASHP into that arrangement. There are 4 of us, so not major hot water usage. Likely will have occasional weekend visitors but shouldn't be much of an issue. I'm just talking to Sunamp at the moment about making me a 4 cell SunampPV rather than having to install two SunampPVs in parallel. I'm just waiting to hear back from them about unit configuration /size. I'll let you know how i get on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Please do - I'm about to press the buy button on a pair but a 4 cell would make more sense. That is assuming that internally the four unit run in parallel rather than a series. BTW - who are you talking to ? I found them difficult to get hold of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I was chatting to Andrew directly, but had a chat with Joan the other day. I'm planning on chasing them tomorrow, so bear with me. TBH not sure how they plan to configure them but the idea / requirement was to double the capacity but only have one set of charging / control gubbins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 My main reason for wanting a parallel pair was to be able to double the flow rate at peak shower time. I was chatting with Andrew on Ebuild, I should probably drop him an email to reconnect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcane Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I noticed last week that their updated brochure on the website now talks about a 4 cell sunamp PV. I would like to know a bit more about how the stack works with an ASHP and wonder if a 4 cell PV would be enough. 5 in the house with above average water use and a requirement 'never to run out of water'. I filled out the form on their site but have had no contact yet, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Declan52 said: Don't forget to take into account the door frame width. The tank would be down then end. Walls on 3 sides and clear of the door I think. Looks that way anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, volcane said: I noticed last week that their updated brochure on the website now talks about a 4 cell sunamp PV. I would like to know a bit more about how the stack works with an ASHP and wonder if a 4 cell PV would be enough. 5 in the house with above average water use and a requirement 'never to run out of water'. I filled out the form on their site but have had no contact yet, This sounds really interesting. I'm wondering can the sun amp PV be charged by immersion or only PV? It would limit us if not. We have some time to se how things progress but I would like a better idea of what I'm going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Effectively yes, you can charge it using (off peak) electricity using a simple time switch on the electricity supply. All you are in effect doing is replacing a solar diversion device with a time switch, the unit itself remains the same either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Does anyone have permission on the old forum to view attachments? I was trying to get a sketch shell820810 put up of her tank to check the dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 It seems to be turned off inside Ebuild, as far as I can see. I'm having to manually re-load attachments from my PC to here, takes hours to find them and then load them, it's now slowing down my blog transfer a lot, to around 40 mins per entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 That's a bit irritating. There were some extremely useful attachments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 35 minutes ago, DeeJunFan said: Does anyone have permission on the old forum to view attachments? I was trying to get a sketch shell820810 put up of her tank to check the dimensions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Genius, Thanks for that. So with standard insulation it's 660mm (should be ok in my 850mm hotpress) Would I be able to stretch to say an extra 50mm leaving it 760mm in diameter? Or would the 500L tank be bigger from the start? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 I had checked the way back machine but it doesn't have a lot of the thread contents, so i doubt it would have the attachments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Sorry just easier to take screenshots and upload them direct. That's for the 400ltr TS I'm fitting next week, which Trevor at Cylinders2go delivered for me last Tuesday. £1095.00 including vat and delivery. I think it's circa £50 additional to get it to the land of the hot press. Go for the metal jacketed version with the higher performing insulation. I've yet to update the info surrounding Shell's 'confusion' surrounding her TS which was going on on EB, re thicker sprayed on insulation vs thinner insulation (but higher performance) and the metal jacket. I had a very long and well informed chat with Roger the head guy at Telford about that misunderstanding and I am now fully conversant with the reasons for and against both types of insulation. DJF, trust me on this for the moment, you need to go for the thinner insulation and the metal jacket option NOT the spray on. I'll elaborate a little later (as it'll be a long post), which I will link to in this thread, but I'll give it a thread of its own so as not to derail this one. The information in that thread will be quite fundamental so I don't want it lost in another thread. If you're going immersion only I'd not go less than 500ltr. Cost difference between a 300ltr (TS) and a 400 ltr is ~£100 the last 500 ltr TS I had was ~ £1250 iirc. Trevor can confirm these upon making an enquiry. Please mention the old forum, the new forum and my user name and I've already pre-empted that we (you lot) get the best price he can do I've just left him a message to come back to me for prices for UVCs at 300 / 400 and 500 ltrs. At the larger size I'd recommend going for dual immersion so you can have one on Pv and another on manual / guest boost for high demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 2 hours ago, DeeJunFan said: Genius, Thanks for that. So with standard insulation its 660mm (should be ok in my 850mm hotpress) Would i be able to stretch to say an extra 50mm leaving it 760mm in diameter? Or would the 500L tank be bigger from the start? Thanks Iirc the 500 is the same width but taller. I've literally just put the phone down to Trevor and he's confirmed the following for UVCs. DIRECT ( electric only so no coil ) 300 £460 400 £793 500 £834 prob double immersion INDIRECT ( wet heating coil plus immersion ) 300 £516 400 £822 500 £895 all inclusive of vat and delivery. Add £50 for NI. Trevor said to go on the website cylinders2go and all the dimensions should be on there. Take 2.5% off the listed prices and you should be in the ball park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 That's great, thanks So being tight space wise shouldn't be that much of an issue. Ok to put expansion vessels in front of the tank as high as possible? Had a look on the website, and there are no Thermal Stores listed, prices are there for the UVC. No dimensions though. Thanks for that! Much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 If you're going electric only then it's likely you'll want to roof the storage target temp right up to get the most gain and subsequent sustain so I'd oversize the EV by at least 30%. The expansion vessel can go in the attic above with zero issues. Make sure it's accessible for service / maintenance / replacement. Ensure that the EV is teed off the cold inlet NOT the hot outlet. Also make an anti-gravity / convection 'trap' in the ascending pipework so as to keep the EV pipework and EV as cool as possible. Your G3 qualified installer ( need one if you want the lifetime warranty with the UVC or the 10 year warranty with the UVC ) should know all this, and don't forget to get the annual inspection done on time each year ( or bin your warranty card ). Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Does the same apply for Thermal store? Or do they not require EV? (Cue head slap) Would you suggest TS or UVC? I'm also wanting to future proof to some degree in case i get a good deal on an ASHP at some stage. So i will need a coil, so DIRECT option would be out? Thanks D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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