Infrared Heating Panels: Radiator alternative?

[Raks]

Hi;

Looking for electrical alternatives to heat up a small studio

As the walls occupied with furniture its hard to find a space to hang an electric radiator.

I came across this "new infrared panel heating" alternative which is quite space saving and claims energy efficient as well.

 

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/hudson-reed-600-watt-infrared-heating-panel-h1800-x-w300mm-black-glass-inf006?campaign=googlebase&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInpnY-83h5QIVkEDTCh3YcgcZEAYYASABEgJ3EfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

https://www.theheatingboutique.co.uk/standard-infrared-white-infrared-heaters-h600mm-x-w900mm-600w-thermostatic.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInpnY-83h5QIVkEDTCh3YcgcZEAYYByABEgIA4fD_BwE

 

Whats your experience on infrared heating panels ? how efficient and reliable are they? Is it comfortable enough to heat up a 20 sqm room?

[SteamyTea]

Um

Been discussed a fair bit.

 

If you see the term 'far infrared', be wary.

[Ferdinand]

That looks rather expensively fashionable for 600w ?. £50 per 100 watts.

 

One of these at 10% of the price? Or several?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F2H1WF8/

 

If it is 20sqm then you need to work out the heat loss through walls etc. I do not see 600W having a lot of impact unless you are passive, or choose to focus on heating certain areas, or use it constantly, or just want the chill taken off. Also, is this a garden building or garage? 2-3 kW may be nearer the mark for peak requirement.

 

For a really low tech comparison, 600W is about the same as 20 tealights for heating. A tealight puts out about the same heat energy as 2 normalised cats (that's wasted someone's morning). I can't comment on the decrement delay of a cat, unless it is shaved.

 

We use one of the above linked heaters in our gym to heat a 3m x 4m (ish) area for children, for example.

 

Suggest specifying type of heating and amount needed and usage pattern first - have you considered if reasonably well ventilated (whisper it quietly) a calor gas heater? I would run it through the @Jeremy Harris heat modelling spreadsheet first, which is very good. 

 

If you actually want to heat the whole thing for extended periods then I think you are more into things like split air-con units or even storage heaters or a woodburner. Or very big electricity bills. 20sqm is not small.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ferdinand

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

 

If it is 20sqm then you need to work out the heat loss through walls etc. I do not see 600W having a lot of impact unless you are passive

Basically what I heat my home with, just mine are storage heaters.

My house is not new or passive.

[Raks]

On 11/11/2019 at 09:14, Ferdinand said:

That looks rather expensively fashionable for 600w ?. £50 per 100 watts.

 

One of these at 10% of the price? Or several?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F2H1WF8/

 

If it is 20sqm then you need to work out the heat loss through walls etc. I do not see 600W having a lot of impact unless you are passive, or choose to focus on heating certain areas, or use it constantly, or just want the chill taken off. Also, is this a garden building or garage? 2-3 kW may be nearer the mark for peak requirement.

 

For a really low tech comparison, 600W is about the same as 20 tealights for heating. A tealight puts out about the same heat energy as 2 normalised cats (that's wasted someone's morning). I can't comment on the decrement delay of a cat, unless it is shaved.

 

We use one of the above linked heaters in our gym to heat a 3m x 4m (ish) area for children, for example.

 

Suggest specifying type of heating and amount needed and usage pattern first - have you considered if reasonably well ventilated (whisper it quietly) a calor gas heater? I would run it through the @Jeremy Harris heat modelling spreadsheet first, which is very good. 

 

If you actually want to heat the whole thing for extended periods then I think you are more into things like split air-con units or even storage heaters or a woodburner. Or very big electricity bills. 20sqm is not small.

 

 

 

 

Thanks . This is where I got confused. The following old blog claims IR heating is more efficient and cheaper then convection heaters to heat up a typical room but hard to find a "personal experience review"  from an  infrared heater user.

https://www.thegreenage.co.uk/the-running-costs-of-infrared-heating/

 

[Raks]

On 11/11/2019 at 07:35, SteamyTea said:

If you see the term 'far infrared', be wary.

is it cost, comfort or health related?

 

It seems the IR panels are usually "far infrared" :

https://www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/main/infrared-heating-information/types-of-infrared-heating/

[joth]

1 hour ago, Raks said:

 

Thanks . This is where I got confused. The following old blog claims IR heating is more efficient and cheaper then convection heaters to heat up a typical room but hard to find a "personal experience review"  from an  infrared heater user.

https://www.thegreenage.co.uk/the-running-costs-of-infrared-heating/

 

The article is a bit misleadingly worded and doesn't cite any sources but giving it the benefit of the doubt, what it is really saying is IR panel will heat up the people in the room faster than a convection electric heater, as the later has to heat the entire [air in] the room before the occupants get its benefit, whereas IR heaters directly heat the object/person in front of them.

 

This is a reasonable way of thinking if you accept that the whole building must remain uncomfortably cold except the exact place where a human currently happens to be at a given moment. At the other end of the scale a house with high amounts of insulation and high heat capacity (so slow to warm up, very slow to cool back down) it's more efficient to forget about the people and aim to keep every room at a comfortable temperature at all times, and for that all types of electric element heaters will be equally efficient over the long term. 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by joth

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, Raks said:

 

Thanks . This is where I got confused. The following old blog claims IR heating is more efficient and cheaper then convection heaters to heat up a typical room but hard to find a "personal experience review"  from an  infrared heater user.

https://www.thegreenage.co.uk/the-running-costs-of-infrared-heating/

 

 

That is a PR blog I think.

 

F

[SteamyTea]

Here is part of an email I received a while back.

 

 

Good morning

FAR INFRA-RED HERRING

I have decided that the phrase "far infrared" (FIR) will henceforth count as a trigger word for bogus energy-saving claims. First used in 1923, FIR is radiation with wavelengths between 10 and 1,000 microns, which (digging in physics books) corresponds to temperatures in the range 3 TO 290 degrees absolute. That's minus 270 to plus 17 Celsius.

    So when regular reader Will S. drew my attention to an electric radiant heater that claimed to use FIR I was intrigued, and looking more widely on the web I found the term used in relation to saunas and therapeutic clothing, suggesting that it is one of these legitimate scientific terms that has been co-opted for the promotion of snake-oil products.

    I have nothing against radiant heating in principle. Quite the contrary: for selective heating of spaces that are sparsely or intermittently occupied, or subject to high air throughput, it is likely to be more economical than warm air heating. But the case study that Will sent me was amusing. It concerned a hair salon whose gas-fired central heating system had been replaced with radiant panels. Fair enough, except that some of the panels took the form of heated mirrors. I don't know what the emissivity of a mirror is, but I'll wager it's closer to zero than one. The vendor may care to reflect on that."

[Nickfromwales]

IR heaters ‘heat what they hit’ so if you can’t see the heater you’ll get very little comfort heat from it. Conversely if you’re directly in front of it, you’ll be toasted. 
Not a fan of IR at all tbh. 
Standing a piece of furniture <100mm off a wall isn’t a big sacrifice in even the smallest of spaces, so probably good to keep some perspective here. I certainly wouldn’t want IR panels up at eye level ?

[SteamyTea]

Another way to look at it is, if it was so great, we would all be using it.

[Big Jimbo]

Just for giggles i will tell you this little one from my past. About 10 years or so ago, a friend in a flat with storage heaters, wanted to get rid of them. He basically designs weapons, bombs, and guidence systems, so he is a right tech type. He found some sort of system, that aggitated the atoms in the rooms, made them rush around, bumping into each other, which caused them to heat up. It worked really well. Fast forward a few months, and i was with a client, basically the person who invented coloured X-Rays, that are now used at every Airport etc around the world. When i explained the system that my mate had installed in his flat, she gave me a look, and said "What do you think your friend is made of ? Atoms. I wouldn't go anywhere near his flat again"

That's why i used to cut up bits of wood for a living

[joe90]

12 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

aggitated the atoms

 

Isn't that how a microwave works?

[SteamyTea]

41 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Isn't that how a microwave works

Yes, but tuned to jiggle water molecules.

All heating is just moving atoms. 

[joe90]

10 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Yes, but tuned to jiggle water molecules.

 

Isn’t the body about 60% water ?

[SteamyTea]

Depends how you class it I think.

If it is just pure liquid water, then no.

But water with other elements, like carbon then probably higher.

But then, do we count the bacteria that is inside the body, but is not human.

My sister is 80% scotch, but was born in Wales.

[Ed Davies]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

First used in 1923, FIR is radiation with wavelengths between 10 and 1,000 microns,

 

Actually @SteamyTea quoted that.

 

Still, it's not quite how the term is typically use now: what people mean is IR around 10 µm rather than specifically longer than that wavelength. 8 µm radiation would be considered far IR, for example. Thermal infrared cameras detect far IR but definitely pick up wavelengths shorter than 10 µm.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Ed Davies
Accidentally posted while starting to type.

[Big Jimbo]

You have all come high tech on my little brain. All i know is that there was no water in the system, or any other liquid..... I just did'nt visit very often.

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:

Actually

What was the question.

[Ed Davies]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

What was the question.

 

Accidentally posted while linking your name - post fixed now.

[SteamyTea]

If I go out when it is cold, my face can glow red, same happens when it is hot.

So I am a good, multi temperature emitter.

For a few hundred quid I will come and stand in the corner of a room and warm the place up. 

For a few hundred more I can pretend to be a voice activated infotainment centre.

Got to be a better bargain than @pocster walk in glazing.

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

If I go out when it is cold, my face can glow red, same happens when it is hot.

So I am a good, multi temperature emitter.

For a few hundred quid I will come and stand in the corner of a room and warm the place up. 

For a few hundred more I can pretend to be a voice activated infotainment centre.

Got to be a better bargain than @pocster walk in glazing.

With my glazing you now get a free naked photo of me - top that ! ?

[SteamyTea]

23 minutes ago, pocster said:

With my glazing you now get a free naked photo of me - top that

Who said I would not be naked.

Charge extra to put my clothes on.

[Ferdinand]

10 hours ago, pocster said:

With my glazing you now get a free naked photo of me - top that ! ?

 

That is the Buildhub Pocster Avatar fundraising sweepstake we discussed last week gone for a burton...