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Sage glass / active glass systems


Conor

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I've seen sage glass being mentioned here a few times. We've a bris soleil in our plans but after some online quotes, and chats with engineer it could end up being costing a couple grand or more...

 

Anybody any idea how much sage glass or similar is compared to standard triple glazing? And can you install it in bifold units or do they need to be fixed units for wiring?

 

Thanks.

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@NSS is our resident Sage glass expert, hopefully he'll be able to shed more light on these questions.

 

When I looked into it as a retrofit, the cost looked to be ~£1000/m², and the wiring connections did look as if they could be accommodated in a  fairly wide range of frame options.  Whether the wiring can deal with multiple hinges in a bifold I don't know, especially given that bifolds are already pretty challenging to get to a reasonable airtightness level, and airtightness is known to get worse with time.  I suspect it might be fairly dependent on the way the hinge and seal systems work.

 

AFAIK, the thermal performance is pretty much on a par with ordinary 3G, with the added benefit of being able to control the amount of solar gain.  This ability to control solar gain is the thing that I think makes Sage glass really attractive as an option.  As I understand it, the solar gain can be varied over a fairly wide range, so if some additional heat is needed on a sunny day in cool weather that can be fairly accurately dialled in.

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Thanks Jeremy. Even if it can't be fitted to the bi-folds, it can at least go into the fixed panes above and the panes on the living room and bedroom... So that would be more than 50% of South facing glass controllable. And no ugly and expensive bris soleil.

Edited by Conor
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Hi @Conor, we ordered our SageGlass around 4 years ago now so the price we paid is probably not a reliable indicator of what it may cost today. That said, it's not cheap, but it is (as I've said before) such an elegant solution. We have several tilt and turn windows which it's installed in, but we very rarely open windows so the cables don't get the stressing of constantly being opened and closed. Whether you could install into bi-folds I wouldn't like to say for certain, but each pane requires a separate cable connection so I somehow doubt it. Even if you could, I'd be concerned about the stress those cables would be under with regular opening and closing. 

 

What I can say is that SageGlass is very effective, and (at least to our minds) offers significant advantages over other measures for mitigating solar gain.

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7 hours ago, NSS said:

I'd be concerned about the stress those cables would be under with regular opening and closing. 

 

I wonder if, no doubt at great expense, you could have discreet sockets in the bi-fold frames and small, replaceable cable loops? If money were no object...

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I would (& will be) looking at better prices for brise soleil. It feels (prior to detailed research!) that this is an area where prices can be super high for what is really just some runs of aluminium and a mounting system - unless you have an awkward installation location. I'm planning on a 6m x .8m brise soleil overhang so would love to hear where you've looked and prices you have. Considering the light weight this could be a good alibaba purchase (if packaged well). Or maybe find a smaller company working with the right materials - I can't imagine the design is that hard so you could tell a fabricator what you need and install yourself. I also looked at exterior blinds and will provision for them but will wait to see if the solar control glazing + other measures are sufficient before buying them as the price is high

 

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Our issue is the structure to which the brise soleil needs to be attached to.... It's currently in the design as a timber former with flat roof, with glazing directly below. This means there's nowhere to attach verticle supports, above or below. So will be a little tricky. And it's also facing directly in to the prevailing wind at 2nd floor level... So just assuming it's going to be a little bit atypical.

 

Considered external roller blinds as well, what kind of prices have you got @Adam2?

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I know it is a trade off with aesthetics and decent daylighting but designing out the problem glass would be my first priority where site conditions permit.  Wall is far cheaper and more energy efficient than glazing.  I often see self build and high end new build detached houses with loads of glazing, suffering from glare and overheating.  With some of the brise soleil you can't even see out of the windows and it just seems like a load of expense for an affectation.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I know it is a trade off with aesthetics and decent daylighting but designing out the problem glass would be my first priority where site conditions permit.  Wall is far cheaper and more energy efficient than glazing.  I often see self build and high end new build detached houses with loads of glazing, suffering from glare and overheating.  With some of the brise soleil you can't even see out of the windows and it just seems like a load of expense for an affectation.

 

 

 

 

That's pretty much my view, too.  One of the nicest houses on GD (IMHO) didn't have acres of glass, it just had very cleverly positioned and shaped windows to frame particular viewpoints.  Those views seemed much more impressive when framed through a cleverly shaped window than they would have done if the whole wall was glazed.

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2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

That's pretty much my view, too.  One of the nicest houses on GD (IMHO) didn't have acres of glass, it just had very cleverly positioned and shaped windows to frame particular viewpoints.  Those views seemed much more impressive when framed through a cleverly shaped window than they would have done if the whole wall was glazed.

We've already reduced the lower half of the glass wall from 6m to 4.5m, and the upper portion from 5m to 4.5m. and made a lot of the other south facing windows smaller and changed double doors to single in the basement level. Will know the impact a bit more once we model it again, but I'm hoping overheating risk will be greatly reduced.

 

I also have to keep reminding myself that we live in Northern Ireland by the coast... In summer it's exceptional for temps to get anywhere near mid twenties, and at night time anywhere near high teens. Very different to southern England. I do not miss summer in Kent...

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8 hours ago, Conor said:

We've already reduced the lower half of the glass wall from 6m to 4.5m, and the upper portion from 5m to 4.5m. and made a lot of the other south facing windows smaller and changed double doors to single in the basement level. Will know the impact a bit more once we model it again, but I'm hoping overheating risk will be greatly reduced.

 

I also have to keep reminding myself that we live in Northern Ireland by the coast... In summer it's exceptional for temps to get anywhere near mid twenties, and at night time anywhere near high teens. Very different to southern England. I do not miss summer in Kent...

 

If you take a look at my profile pic you'll see we have relatively small areas of glass. Granted, our circumstances are unusual given that night purging is not an option for us, but you'd be surprised just how quickly the temperature rises, even at this time of year (with outside temperatures in the low to mid teens), if the sun is shining and the SageGlass is switched off. If you have large areas of south-facing glazing, the outside temp is pretty much irrelevant if there's bright sunshine.

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