Guest Alphonsox Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 9 hours ago, TerryE said: In terms of overall design, we seem to be pretty much paralleling @Alphonsox Neil apart from the sea air of course. The only main difference is that I am not going to fit my ASHP for completion, but use just electricity for the first year or so, so we can characterise and size our system needs and fit the ASHP as a year 2 upgrade. Funnily enough I was considering doing much the same. In our case because I don't want the ASHP in place until we are living in the house full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakelandfolk Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Sounds like a strong contender for us two old codgers. We want our heating and dhw systems to be auto matic, simple and reliable. We have access to gas and a proposed PV array of 7.8 kw. The house will be timber frame (close to passive house) 160m2 over 2 floors, with UFH . Perhaps a 10kw Sunamp + Combi Gas Boiler will do the job. Do Sunamp offer design help? We like the idea of an automatic control system that will select the most efficient use of energy between UFH,& DHW and Gas Boiler or Sunamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidFrancis Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 If you want things simple and reliable why not just have a well insulated tank with an immersion running off E7? If you're going to be in a near-passive house you'll only need heating for a few days a year, so just run one or more fan heaters on E7 - the house shouldn't cool down much, if at all, during the day. Very low capital cost. Next-to-no maintenance/servicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 To be honest if you have access to mains gas I wouldn't use a stored water system at all. An instantaneous water should meet your requirements for gas and UFH . I would question the need for a PV array as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) On 18/10/2016 at 11:10, Alphonsox said: ... if I heat the floor to 20C it needs to emit 4.5kWh to drop to a temperature of 19C. According to Jeremy's heat loss spreadsheet (and SAP) the house should require around 1.5kW to maintain a 20C temperature when its 0C outside. Likewise I estimate that for the 2-3 heating months (that is when we need to supplement the heating) if we use the slab alone as the main heat source, it will lose roughly 1°C every 3-5 hours, so if I boost the slab's temperature to 23°C by end of E7 then this will keep the house within a comfortable window for the remaining day. Even if we need to top up or put a fan heater on in the living room for a few hours in the evening, then this is hardly going to cost a lot. So to answer @Nickfromwales Q, yes the slab can be used as thermal store. But again this is only an interim for a year or two until we've got the hard data to design and install our "optimum" solution. Edited October 19, 2016 by TerryE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 On 10/17/2016 at 23:12, TerryE said: IMO, using the SunAmp as a thermal store for UFH is overkill. You've already got maybe 7m³ of concrete to do that. In a passive house with typical losses you can pump the heat into the slab when economic to do so and let the temperature vary maybe 1°C, for example with E7 or E7 powered ASHP. KISS. @Stones Jason, I am going for E7, partially because I think that within 5 years we will have consumer spot pricing tarrif options. It's really only a software issue now, and doing so is really going to help the generators optimise supply / demand management. In terms of overall design, we seem to be pretty much paralleling @Alphonsox Neil apart from the sea air of course. The only main difference is that I am not going to fit my ASHP for completion, but use just electricity for the first year or so, so we can characterise and size our system needs and fit the ASHP as a year 2 upgrade. I did consider the prospect of dynamic / spot pricing being introduced at some point, but concluded that I would just as easily be able to program my ASHP to heat / produce DHW during those periods. On 10/18/2016 at 16:53, DavidFrancis said: If you want things simple and reliable why not just have a well insulated tank with an immersion running off E7? If you're going to be in a near-passive house you'll only need heating for a few days a year, so just run one or more fan heaters on E7 - the house shouldn't cool down much, if at all, during the day. Very low capital cost. Next-to-no maintenance/servicing. Having looked very closely into this previously, it makes a lot of sense for low requirement households - heating and DHW requirement each below 2500 kWh/yr. Once your requirement goes over those thresholds, other options start to look more financially attractive. There is of course also the 'problem' of SAP which heavily penalises you using direct electric as your fuel source. 1 hour ago, TerryE said: Likewise I estimate that for the 2-3 heating months (that is when we need to supplement the heating) if we use the slab alone as the main heat source, it will lose roughly 1°C every 3-5 hours, so if I boost the slab's temperature to 23°C by end of E7 then this will keep the house within a comfortable window for the remaining day. Even if we need to top up or put a fan heater on in the living room for a few hours in the evening, then this is hardly going to cost a lot. So to answer @Nickfromwales Q, yes the slab can be used as thermal store. But again this is only an interim for a year or two until we've got the hard data to design and install our "optimum" solution. I've always been very tempted by the notion of working through a year with a temporary heating system so you can properly assess the actual rather than theoretical heating and DHW requirement, and applaud you for taking this approach. Sadly, I couldn't persuade my other half to go down this route. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 You should get your other half actively involved in the forum. It does make it a lot easier to reach consensus when both of you are looking at the same posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 She has absolutely no interest in the technical side. Interior design is her domain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Stones said: She has absolutely no interest in the technical side. Interior design is her domain... The cost of the heating system will be the least of your worries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readiescards Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 18/10/2016 at 15:38, lakelandfolk said: Do Sunamp offer design help? I asked them that exact question last week! Waiting to hear, will let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 I popped onto the SunAmp stand today at the Build Show in the NEC. The young guy I spoke to was very friendly but had almost zero knowledge of the product beyond how it worked when combined with a combi boiler. When I asked him 'application' related questions he said "I don't know I just make them in the factory. Feel free to take a leaflet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 On 15/10/2016 at 12:29, Nickfromwales said: Need to speak to them before I can comment tbh. I've not looked at these close enough to cast an opinion but I'll ring Monday and see what the Bobby Moore is. "Please hold the line.......your call is important to us....." ? Dont flatter yourself lol. I'll 'do it' for the good of the thread / members too and, tbph, I want to know for myself as I may well start promoting these through my business. . To summarise, that's 2 members at 3 pints each so next Friday eve is covered ???? Sweet. Hi @Nickfromwales I feel a bit guilty nudging you..............but.............did you every get chance to speak to Sunamp? P.S. I'm over the guilt now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 @Alphonsox, Neil any update on how your install is going? I am just about to order an identical configuration as yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 hours ago, TerryE said: @Alphonsox, Neil any update on how your install is going? I am just about to order an identical configuration as yours Unfortunately I have no progress to report, The build has been on hold for the last couple of months. I'm hoping to get things moving again in the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Wel, we've just finished installing our Wickes kitchen and I've got to give them top marks (but that's a different topic). The water system is next on my list. I suspect that the SunAmp is going to be a long lead item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Worth giving them a call, I seem to remember ours taking around 10 days from order to delivery to Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Not sure if this made it to the forum over the summer..... Sunamp are planning 2MW container storage versions banked to provide up to 64MW delivered to your door via barge. http://www.ukdea.org.uk/en/media/latest-news/1390-15102016-sunamp-to-transport-waste-heat-by-barge-in-project-with-bristol-council.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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