Concrete pour in heavy rain.

[Russell griffiths]

9 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

Who are you tarting to? me most likely. I am becoming all of 1/2 a man from being on this site!

 

I  have a vague notion my builder (main) might have told 2ndIC to go a step extra down for me.. as I was so often faffing with an inch here n there in height, I think it might have driven him to distraction, & he's kindly given me 10" extra by just telling 2ndIC to go down more.

 

I can't see any other reason, my plan was as clear as day/ meticuously done.

Show us your plan, so we can talk you through it. 

[Redoctober]

Amusing as this thread was initially and having followed it, I can't help thinking that you @zoothorn need to take some firm action with regards to your builder and the relationship you have with him otherwise your health, both physical and mental will suffer, if it hasn't already. 

 

I can't believe a builder will "bully " their client the way you are describing, if proper terms / discussions have been agreed upon. After all you are the person paying him. In basic terms building is no different to any other transaction - if you don't like it either don't pay or pay up and move on with another builder!

 

After all, whatever it is you are doing with this builder clearly isn't working and it could only get worse as the build continues, it would seem.

 

Failing that, ask someone you do know and trust to speak on your behalf. Surely you must have at least one person who can communicate for you - a sort of go between maybe?

 

You are only at the foundation stage and already you are lurching from one precieved crisis to another, so, like @Russell griffiths has said - show us your plans etc so that suitable advice can be given from those on this forum. This might then provide you with more confidence etc. Otherwise it is going to be long and painful run up to Christmas!

 

[Bitpipe]

Some simple questions that will help us help you..

 

1) Do you have an approved set of drawings that they are building to? These will show floor levels etc and probably can't be changed on the fly without planning or building control sign off.

2) Do you have a written contract / estimate / quote with this builder for the works? If not, you are both in a risky position as he can inflate the cost at will and you can refuse to pay.

3) How are you paying? Staged payments are best when work is complete and to standard. Avoid paying upfront for materials etc as there is always a risk that you may not get them if you fall out. Building merchants offer established builders decent payment terms so he should not have cash flow issues for materials. Labour can often need paid at the end of the week, but if the work's been done then there should be no issue.

 

 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Redoctober said:

Otherwise it is going to be long and painful run up to Christmas!

 

 

For all of us! ?

[Cpd]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

Some simple questions that will help us help you..

 

1) Do you have an approved set of drawings that they are building to? These will show floor levels etc and probably can't be changed on the fly without planning or building control sign off.

2) Do you have a written contract / estimate / quote with this builder for the works? If not, you are both in a risky position as he can inflate the cost at will and you can refuse to pay.

3) How are you paying? Staged payments are best when work is complete and to standard. Avoid paying upfront for materials etc as there is always a risk that you may not get them if you fall out. Building merchants offer established builders decent payment terms so he should not have cash flow issues for materials. Labour can often need paid at the end of the week, but if the work's been done then there should be no issue.

Sound advise. 

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Show us your plan, so we can talk you through it. 

 

Yup will do tmrw/ old cam needs a day to charge!

 

@Redoctober appreciate your post. Its bullying.. but in the best way actually: the guy -does- know best over me (of course) & according to my builder (main guy) probably knows best over the BCO too with regard to some things. They are pretty thick with each other these 3/ colleagues really (very good this "so we're all p*ssing with the same c*ck see!" said my 2nd-in-command! very welsh humour, very amusing).

 

@Bitpipe & also appreciate your advice too.

1) The plans are mine, simple & clear, & both builders perfectly happy with them.

2) Yes I have a written, itemised estimate.. exactly as I asked.

3) I'm paying on completion.

 

Ok I spoke to my builder (main) asking about: the water/ concrete etc, & the 11" discrepency. Concrete.. fine, he reassured me. The 11".. he just reassured me "no you've got that wrong.. we work from the top down [innitial measuring by 2nd -in-command from the eaves etc] & I can guarantee it'll be correct". Well, my 2nd-in-C said maybe 2" gained.. so there's still a 9" discrepency that I'm still fairly sure of. I said to him ok if there were to be let's just say, 10" gained, can I in theory add  5" to both rooms' height? yes he said. Now that.. would be terrific.

 

So alot better, from my pov. He said just wait till the slab/ scree is done & you'll see then. Good call, friendly, all ok. Relieved, zoot.

[Cpd]

30 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

2) Yes I have a written, itemised estimate.. exactly as I asked.

The word “estimate “ in the above sentence would give me sleepless nights....... 

[zoothorn]

40 minutes ago, Cpd said:

The word “estimate “ in the above sentence would give me sleepless nights....... 

 

I'd imagine it would if you don't trust your builder.

 

The only thing I need to discuss with him with regard to any additional costs, is this drainage situation, which I hadn't put on the plan (not asked to) or known of needing. Apparantly its a case of adding two 100mm ribbed black pipes: 1st from the top of the concrete pour > out to 4m away to my stream apparantly to drain off the 1"-2" water sitting on the concrete in a moat: why it can't be pumped out I don't know, but, if it has to be done (& the idea was the BCO's I think) then I'd hope either no cost , or only cost of pipe, or reasonable if not.

 

The 2nd drainage pipe apparantly needs to go around the whole 3 sides of extention.. so I'd imagine although not a 1 hr job, not a big job so I'd hope again nothing £unreasonable to be added.

 

Apart from these, as the build is very streamlined for simplicity/ I am doing all internal work/ & all stages itemised albeit in estimate form.. I do not envisage any nastiy surprises, none at all. I know this builder, he's done work for me before & bill was exactly as per estimate to the penny (in fact he let me off £700 for a new back door & frame he/ they did, as it got jammed so often [howden's poor door + huge moisture in air here = swell] I kicked up a bit, & I forced Howden's to refund him £300 he was rather impressed with! .. now that's a good builder).

Edited October 12, 2019 by zoothorn

[ProDave]

Piping water off your land to a ditch owned by someone else without asking them first, just sounds like the next excuse to have people knocking on your door.

[zoothorn]

14 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Piping water off your land to a ditch owned by someone else without asking them first, just sounds like the next excuse to have people knocking on your door.

 

No, the stream's on my land, I'm happy with it being done.

Edited October 12, 2019 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

Let's hope Tubbs & Edward next door don't read this forum.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

Let's hope Tubbs & Edward next door don't read this forum.

edit.. can you edit without the quote then?!!

Edited October 12, 2019 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

Just now, zoothorn said:

edit..

Sorry, you want me to edit my post?

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

Sorry, you want me to edit my post?

Yes the one with my quote in it showing my evil plan already!

[Onoff]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

No, the stream's on my land, I'm happy with it being done.

 

If BCO has OK'd it I can't see the issue. It's only diverted rainwater run off anyway.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

If BCO has OK'd it I can't see the issue. It's only diverted rainwater run off anyway.

 

Yes BCO want it, its going into my stream on my land.

 

Tubbs & edward post. evil plan. edit.

[zoothorn]

Haha -thanks for the edit @Onoff

 

Btw, this 100mm drain off the excess water pipe (still 2" sitting on the founds).. is this normal? I mean I understand to block ontop the founds it needs to F.Off, but why not either just pump it or even me bail it out, saving the digger tracks bodging my front lawn.. let alone a 1ftx 4ft deep trench having to slice right across its width to the hedge for the pipe.

[ProDave]

I suspect this drain is not just to drain the present standing water.  Rather they have realised the ground is poor draining so they want to build a French Drain around the extension with a permanent pipe for it to drain to, to keep the land dry and the water table down.

[zoothorn]

@ProDave ok thanks understood. Its very solid clay, uniformly so, so that's makes sense.. I'll google french drains.

 

With regard to the TF construction/ inner course: I think I'm right that the dividing floor between my two rooms, is not fixed in after the whole 2 floors' height of TF is made, but rather the lower room wall's made > then the diving floor > then the top floor-?

 

I've got a bit of a tricky one regarding determining the placement of the floor, now I do seem to have approx 10" extra D (still seems to me, tho my builder adamant this is not the case): a bonus 10" if true, but, does mean I need to carefully reconsider the floor position.

[joe90]

15 hours ago, ProDave said:

I suspect this drain is not just to drain the present standing water.  Rather they have realised the ground is poor draining so they want to build a French Drain around the extension with a permanent pipe for it to drain to, to keep the land dry and the water table down.

 

Because of our high water table I did this, just backfilled after footings and blocks up to 150mm below DPC with 50mm stone and a membrane against the soil/clay. 100mm drainage pipe out to a ditch, works very well and the land is a lot less soggy around the build.

[zoothorn]

19 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

Because of our high water table I did this, just backfilled after footings and blocks up to 150mm below DPC with 50mm stone and a membrane against the soil/clay. 100mm drainage pipe out to a ditch, works very well and the land is a lot less soggy around the build.

 

Ok thanks, understood. Im sitting here waiting/ 2nd-in-C said he'd do this pipe > ditch monday 1st thing.. I  must make sure he doesn't destroy my beech/ holly hedge, or, dig across gdn to stream as orig planned.. so my day held up until he comes, or looking like maybe not today).

 

[Nickfromwales]

15 hours ago, ProDave said:

I suspect this drain is not just to drain the present standing water.  Rather they have realised the ground is poor draining so they want to build a French Drain around the extension with a permanent pipe for it to drain to, to keep the land dry and the water table down.

Remember in very adverse conditions, heavy clay being one, I would recommend fitting more than one run of french drain. Cheap enough to buy, and a very good place to have such redundancy ( bearing in mind that you have already dug a trench, so why not double up anyway ). Builder may scoff at that idea, but I would persevere and just tell them to do it as it is your wish.

Make sure the pipe is covered with Terram / other ( weed membrane ) to arrest the influx of silt / other unwanted spoil. 

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Remember in very adverse conditions, heavy clay being one, I would recommend fitting more than one run of french drain. Cheap enough to buy, and a very good place to have such redundancy ( bearing in mind that you have already dug a trench, so why not double up anyway ). Builder may scoff at that idea, but I would persevere and just tell them to do it as it is your wish.

Make sure the pipe is covered with Terram / other ( weed membrane ) to arrest the influx of silt / other unwanted spoil. 

 

I think this is the idea, IE my gutter on the far (road) side, will go into a drain grate > down into pipe, this will go around front of EXT .. & meet this drain out pipe going to my hedge/ ditch.

 

Anyway I just cannot dare suggest anything. Not to this guy. It'll be a sudden square up to me & "LOOK.. I'm doing this you make the fkn tea" its not worth risking him grump & pulling off the job for a week as a slap-in-face to me (as all builders know they have the power to, causing huge stress on customer as they have no idea if/ when he'll be back).

 

In meantime my only concern right now/ at this stage (assuming he won't have destroyed my hedge putting drain out to it) is the damn height of ground floor I'll have, which alot is dependent upon.

 

I had a friend round, whose had alot of building work done, who says"'ontop of the founds you'll have your 18" (2x block H) PLUS *sand layer, *insulation layer, *concrete top scree etc.. so he's built it to your level you wanted" IE he thinks its 18" PLUS let's call it 9" of these ***. I say no, these *** go within the 18", the only figure I need to establish floor level is 18" up from founds.

 

Whose right?

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Anyway I just cannot dare suggest anything. Not to this guy. It'll be a sudden square up to me & "LOOK.. I'm doing this you make the fkn tea" its not worth risking him grump & pulling off the job for a week as a slap-in-face to me (as all builders know they have the power to, causing huge stress on customer as they have no idea if/ when he'll be back).

Just sack the prick if he says that to you. Are you under some disillusion that they're the only building team in Wales? I would stop work now and meet up with #1. If you carry on as their pet, instead of their customer, FCUK knows how the rest of the build is going to go, or more importantly what it will do to your health.

 

As you stated, you haven't paid anything yet so a quick reminder of that wouldn't go amiss here I think. It's quite nauseating to hear how you are being talked to / treated here if I'm honest. You SERIOUSLY need to hit the reset button here and cut off the problem AT SOURCE. That means a meeting with #1 before any more work is carried out on site. If you don't stand up for yourself now then you will be almost at fault for allowing this to become business as normal. Get a handle on this now, as it will grow horns and you'll regret a lot of the decisions made, after paying for them of course.

 

I wont say exactly what I would do to the (expletive deleted)wits who have caused you such other grief, but the dog shit would have been packed into the holes in a dozen engineering bricks...... one for each window.

 

 

The one thing I cannot tolerate from anyone is them being obstinate or just plain rude. Those types soon realise what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object    

 

 

[zoothorn]

On 12/10/2019 at 08:01, Russell griffiths said:

Show us your plan, so we can talk you through it. 

 

Hi Russell. This is the plan: its -not- a "Full Plans" type: to reiterrate, the build is commencing via a 'Build Notice' involving my builder asking me for only critical dims on a simplified plan showing door positions/ window/ etc/ etc. It doesn't require u-values, or similar intricate details. This plan probably shows more than he asked me to do, but, he was very happy with it. My 2nd-in-command has a copy, which I see he's got in his digger (sitting idle at the mo), & he was happy with it. If neither happy, or anything whatoever unclear.. they'd have Q'd me.

 

We discussed the interior adjacent room original floor levels (the broken lines), I explained the important 350mm step down from this point. He understood. I think (bc he gave me a full plans example, to get the gist & glean the basics he needs from it) the broken line is standard 'plans' designated symbol, for an existing floor level I'm not sure.. but, I walked him through this simple plan focussing on this point/ my broken line, the ground level line near it, & the 350mm new floor mark: he understood perfectly.

 

Thanks all.

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by zoothorn