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ICF with a stone face


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Hi,

I would like to hear your opinions on what way to do the Windows and Door on an ICF house with Stone facing. Here are some examples below.

In this example below the windows are kept back behind the 100mm exterior insulation

IMG-20190523-WA0011.jpg?raw=1

 

IMG-20190528-WA0006.jpg?raw=1

 

 

 

 

 

But this leave an EPS reveal!! up above, the EPS is painted with a TT rubberized membrane and the Lintel is powdercoated black.

I understand the guy about, he has a 25mm nib all around the reveal to which the window frame is bonded too, but I believe it won't look the best.

 

I was thinking to bring the stone into the reveal like in the below, but was worried I might not get a good enough seal to the window frame/stone, 

 

Thermohouse_Finish.jpg?raw=1

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Will be doing something similar so interested in the responses. Personally, I would be seeking to have the stone face and window fitting meet up. Probably need a flexible seal between the two, so just need to make the stone edge as straight as possible I guess.

It's what you use for that flexible seal that I guess is the key.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's how the above finished up, I leave an EPS reveal that needs to be protected, I think this guy is going to use metal sheeting.

 

I'm after the stone facing right up to the window, so I'm going to cut the little nib at the front and move the windows flush with the outside EPS face, (See attachedhow another guy has just run the cement up against the PVC face)

IMG-20190904-WA0014.jpg

IMG-20190904-WA0016.jpg

1.jpg

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  • 4 months later...

Just to continue this,

This is my plan so far to seal up the windows and doors. Please drop some comments if you see an area to be improved, something I should do differently.

Airtight_plan.jpg?raw=1

 

I Put some supports under the windows and doors even though I was told it's not necessary and that the foam would carry the load.

I love overkill anyway.

 

IMAG3550.jpg?raw=1

 

 

IMAG3566.jpg?raw=1

 

 

 

you can see some backer rod sticking out here on the right side

 

IMAG3603.jpg?raw=1

 

 

Some close up

IMAG3900.jpg?raw=1

 

 

IMAG3901.jpg?raw=1

 

 

and the upper window

 

IMAG3949.jpg?raw=1

 

 

 

@BotusBuild   Any luck with your detailing of the stone face? Do you know which way  you are going with it.

 

Even though it says this Feltrim 2 tape can be plastered over with sand/cement, the data sheets says to leave about 15mm of tape on the frame not covered in concrete/plaster.

Does anyone know a better tape that can be completely covered?

 

 

Thanks

 

Edited by magnethead
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2 hours ago, magnethead said:

@BotusBuild   Any luck with your detailing of the stone face? Do you know which way  you are going with it.

 

I'm a long way from this stage at the moment. I will need to make a decision as I get estimates for my ICF supply - whether to fit stone cladding slips direct to the outside of the ICF, or to build a stone wall with a cavity behind.

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I am just fitting my windows and decided I wanted to avoid any window tape as I thought it looked a right pain, on the advice from NORSKEN windows I have used a system made by TREMCO ILLBRUCK  it is a two part process 

first you use there airtight foam FM330 if I remember correctly, you let this dry and trim it back flush, you then use an air sealing paste that comes in a tube, you squirt this all over the foam just like silicon. 

However the clever bit is it has a very low viscosity so you get a 20mm wide paint brush and pull it gently down so it spreads all over the foam, you can get your finger in the corners and smooth it out, you can brush it all around the brackets making a complete seal. 

 

I am very very very impressed with the product and the reduced cost compared with tape. 

I am generally a hard arsed very hard to please bloke, but i am seriously impressed with this stuff. 

 

I think i have spent £220 on sealing up all my windows, and they are huge, my average window is 2.6 wide by 1.8 high so a fair distance around them. 

Edited by Russell griffiths
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21 hours ago, willbish said:

Sounds good @Russell griffiths

Did you paint blowerproof liquid all around your reveals prior to installing your windows?

Seems counterintuitive to make an airtight seal onto EPS which is not airtight

 

 

I have given all the reveals 2 counts of solvent free waterproof and gas proof type paint. EED7F993-6F73-447C-AFB4-39CD9F27E555.thumb.jpeg.2ff6b324e542550e1da93a83c30eb4a8.jpeg

Edited by Russell griffiths
Incorrect wording of a product.
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1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

I have given all the reveals 2 counts of solvent free waterproof bituminous type paint. 

 

Now you tell me.  Late, as usual Russ. Phhhhh.....

Quote

you then use an air sealing paste that comes in a tube, you squirt this all over the foam just like silicon. 

 

Do you have a trade name for that paste?

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 maybe just me

but anything bituminous is made from oil --so you sure it will have no long term effect on foam?

can,t see how it can be totally solvent free?

acryilic based stone chip as used on cars --is solvent free  and paintable 

 the test to me would be if you can paint it

if it don,t like it and melts --then it has a some solvent 

 me

i  will be having windows just covering it and overlapping stone work by small amount+ flexible sealer at join 

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@scottishjohn

 

you are spot on with your bitumin comments. 

I have been working all day fretting that I had written the wrong word in my post and nearly came home half way through the day to edit it. 

 

 

So my previous post had said I used a bituminous paint to seal my icf reveals. 

 

THIS IS INCORRECT  

i used a water based waterproof and gas proof paint, it is completely safe on eps whereas bitumen or any solvent based product must not be used. 

 

Please check the compatibility of a product before you install it. 

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9 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Now you tell me.  Late, as usual Russ. Phhhhh.....

 

Do you have a trade name for that paste?

Illbruck look on you tube for product reference I think it is something like 925 but check this as they have loads of products all with a number as the product name. 

 

Edited by Russell griffiths
Trying to help the old fella out.
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Does anyone know of a good tie system? for inserting after the concrete pour? I have some helical ties, but they are a pain to insert and the local mason said he doesn't believe they have the same holding power as the standard triangle heads.

 

These might do the job, but look like they are only available in the states

https://www.h-b.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=158

Edited by magnethead
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Thanks @Russell griffiths  I was actually making  a doppy mistake, I had being using a 6mm bit with the helical ties and they were getting bent to bit and destroying the wall insulation as I was trying to insert.....Once I started using the 6.5mm bit everything was a lot easier ?

 

so just to finish off my input, this is the way I had to go in the end....Metal lad onsite swopped in and saved the day, by taking the lintels off me last minute and wrapping them in zinc.

It's a very bad picture below for some reason (camera didn't pick up the shiny silver polished finish on the underside of the lintels.) This picture was taken before I passivated the welds.

 

IMAG4027.jpg?raw=1

 

 

 

IMAG4055.jpg?raw=1

 

you can see here how they brought the stone up to the edge of the SIGA tape, and they are not going to point the edges here.

 

IMAG4064.jpg?raw=1

 

 

you can see at the bottom here, that the zinc is wrapped at the grey edge of the zinc around the dripped edge of the lintel, it's also bends down 90 degrees at the back of the stone by about 10mm.

 

IMAG4068.jpg?raw=1

 

 

Used a load of X-tack,  instant bond adhesive

 

IMAG4069.jpg?raw=1

 

 

IMAG4071.jpg?raw=1

 

 

Very very happy with the results, natural stone does it for me !!

 

IMAG4077.jpg?raw=1

 

 

Feel free to critique any of the details, I was just doing a best effort as I couldn't locate enough details online for this type of thing

Edited by magnethead
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19 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

What make is the black dpm you have painted on ??

and what is the silicon type stuff you are using and how well does it stick. I’m finding it increasingly hard to find anything to stick to this icf. 

Triton do a paint on w-proof membrane " TT Vapour membrane" they recommended for my ICF  Let me know if you need a contact there for info etc

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On 02/03/2020 at 18:47, Russell griffiths said:

Looks spot on @magnethead

questions. 

What make is the black dpm you have painted on ??

and what is the silicon type stuff you are using and how well does it stick. I’m finding it increasingly hard to find anything to stick to this icf. 

 

Hi,

The manufacturer recommends MS polymer for use with the EPS.....I have a triton TT black membrane(goes on blue at first like blowerproof) painted onto the EPS and that Glue I'm using is called X-tack....IT's Tec7(very popular here) high strength adhesive, most brands have a high-tack formula.... Instant stick and super strong, I imagine it work on just about anything.

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