Electric cars create more carbon dioxide than diesels.

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I was considering an Ev for daily use as my daily run is very short --so i looked at  a citreon ev car and after a big struggle i found out battery replacement cost --£7k

that put the lid on it for me --can buy a lot of fuel for that money and buy a car to same job at a 1/3 of the price .

Its still not a sensible option for most people --yet.

I looked to do a 3 year lease package --cost i was quoted was about same as bmw 5series  diesel for citreon c1 ev puddle jumper

my guess because they think resale values will be poor 

try it your self and see --maybe its changed --but doubt it

 

 

 

Why would most people ever need to think about replacing the battery, though?

 

The battery life for most EVs will be way over 200,000 miles, and I doubt that many people keep cars to that sort of mileage (accepting that a few will, but they are a small minority).

 

Resale vales of non-battery lease EVs seem to be fairly high, at least no worse than those for conventional cars.  Battery lease cars are depreciating a bit more, not because of the battery failing (it's covered by the lease anyway) but because the battery lease cost becomes a greater part of ownership cost as the car value decreases.  AFAIK, the only manufacturer still using the battery lease model is Renault, with the Zoe, other manufacturers who initially played around with the battery lease model seem to have decided to drop it. 

[SteamyTea]

I think there is a discrepancy between people that buy new, or fairly new cars, and people that buy end of life cars.

Having bought news cars in the past, and see nearly £20k in depreciation over 5 years (same time I bought a holiday home for £36k).  I decided that end of life cars were better value.

So far the total costs for the last 20 years has been less than the previous depreciation (I do drive like my Mother these days and can get 100,000 miles out of a set of brake pads, they used to last 5,000 miles).

Edited July 8, 2019 by SteamyTea

[Ferdinand]

8 hours ago, TerryE said:

The Institute for Energy Research

 

I think that is the report linked to, not the body that did the research, which was German.  do not know about the German body they link,

 

11 hours ago, AliG said:

It is a horrendously inaccurate piece of research using numbers that are wrong with even a few minutes research.

 

Clearly EVs are not zero emission, but they are definitely lower assuming that you are comparing similar sized cars.

 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/electric-car-‘hatchet-job’-debunked

 

These debunkers seem reputable, looking at the peeps involved.

 

When looking at the claim, the first thing that jumps out is that they are relying on the imo silly kneejerk decision of the Germans to phase out nuclear after the Japan nuclear leak. 

 

I would see Lithium batteries as being as recyclable as aluminium before too long.

 

Ferdinand

 

[SteamyTea]

12 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I would see Lithium batteries as being as recyclable as aluminium before too long.

I think, but I am no chemist, that it is the cobalt that is the hard one to get out.

There are projects to repurpose old car batteries, but I think that is not the best use for them.

There is also the price volatility to take into account.  Cobalt is very volatile.

Figures from Metalary

 

[Jeremy Harris]

One of the major issues with switching to EVs is that they need a change of mindset when it comes to how we use and own cars.

 

For example, there's very little, if any, need for most EV owners to ever wish to stop at a filling station.  After a while the idea of having to stop somewhere to fill up with fuel every week or two just seems a bit of an odd thing to have to do, as for those who are able to charge at home very quickly get used to just plugging the car in from time to time, either overnight on E7, or during a sunny day if you have PV.  This even applies on fairly long trips; so far I've only had to break a journey to charge three times, and twice I didn't actually need to charge, it just so happened that there was free charging at a place we stopped for refreshment. 

 

Looking at our holidays since getting the i3, the hotel we stayed at for Christmas had a charge point, the hotel we stayed at for a short break in March had a charge point, there were charge points in the car parks at Southampton airport (I didn't need to charge, but nevertheless they would be handy for those that did), the hotel we staying at in October has several charge points, as does the one we're staying at in Devon over Christmas this year.  I don't need to bother about charging en-route, as the car will just get charged whilst it's parked up, just as it does at home.

 

The other switch is the way many (perhaps most) car owners are thinking about car ownership cost.  What's now pretty clear is that most people "buy" cars on the basis of how much per month it's going to cost them.  People like me, who buy cars outright are now in a minority, it seems, as more and more people buy with PCP or similar, and are only concerned with the monthly cost.  The slightly lower total monthly cost for EVs, driven in part by the reasonably generous BIK for those who use their cars for business travel, makes running an EV look fairly attractive. 

 

I suspect that in the longer term, people like me, who always opt to buy a car outright, will become a pretty small minority, as more and more people switch to a lease-type ownership model.  As that happens, the concerns over things like longevity, battery replacement cost, etc just fade away, as the costs associated with those things will just get swept up into a lease cost.

 

It's interesting to see that short term leasing seems to be taking off reasonably well.  For example, Evezy ( https://www.evezy.co.uk/ ) seem to be going from strength to strength, using a business model that I thought was doomed to failure.  It seems there are a fair few people around who quite like the idea of being able to use a car with a no-strings-attached lease deal, one where they can just hand the car back anytime they like.  Seems very odd to me, but there's no doubt that the concept seems to be growing more popular.

[Ferdinand]

35 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

, Evezy ( https://www.evezy.co.uk/

 

Rather restrictive terms ? without referral to the insurer. No one over 65 ! And referring solicitors along with Football Club Directors and bodyguards to the insurer first seems a little harsh.

 

I would say this should be in line with the likes of Hertz.

 

https://www.evezy.co.uk/info/terms-conditions/

 

Quote

A Named driver must meet the following criteria, anything outside will have to be referred to the insurer:

1. Drivers aged between 25 – 65 years of age

2. Full UK/EU Driving Licence: 3 years

3. Resident in the UK: 2 years

4. No more than 6 penalty points in last 3 years (minor convictions)

5. All major motoring convictions must be referred

6. Not banned within the last 5 years 

7. No more than 1 fault claim within the last 3 years

8. All criminal convictions must be referred

To be eligible for our service the Driver must not:

1. 1. Have been refused motor vehicle insurance or continuance thereof

   2. Use the vehicle for any commercial gain, business or occupation outside of use for social, domestic or pleasure

   3. be in one of the following occupations: anybody associated with the entertainment or sports industries, bookmakers, casino/club employees, debt collectors, money lenders, second hand dealers/merchants, journalists photographers, market/street traders, private investigators, legal professionals, import/export merchant, professional sports people and persons of no fixed abode.

   4. be in any of the following occupations without referral to EVezy’s insurer first: anybody associated with the entertainment or sports industries, bookmakers, casino/club employees, debt collectors, money lenders, second hand dealers/merchants, journalists photographers, market/street traders, students under 25 years, private investigators, legal professionals, import/export merchant, professional sports people and persons of no fixed abode.

   5. Have suffered from any disability or medical condition which has not been notified to the DVLA or which has been notified and resulted in the refusal of a driving licence

   6. Have during the last 5 years been convicted of or has a pending prosecution for any offence or combination of offences which resulted in or may result in more than 6 penalty points the Driver’s driving licence or which resulted in or may result in a loss of licence or suspension or ban from driving

   7. Have during the last 10 years been convicted of or has a pending prosecution for any criminal offence

 

 

I do, however, agree on the variety of models.

 

Provided some one-club golfer political panjandrum doesn't decide that everything except their pet idea must be discouraged or banned without good reason.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

Evezy are a start-up, though, trying to introduce a novel approach into car use, one that is unlike ownership or car hire in many ways (not least the price).  With all car running costs (insurance, maintenance, breakdown cover, even charging) included in the monthly subscription they are pretty much unique, as their monthly price is what it will cost to run one of their cars, with no extras. 

[SteamyTea]

Do they cover minor damage or are they like Gold car hire, who just say that you damaged it regardless.

[Jeremy Harris]

From a quick scan of their Ts and Cs it looks as if the insurance is fully comp, but the driver is liable for the excess, which could be up to £1,000.  My guess is that this is to try to make their customers take a bit more care with the cars, and is probably little or no worse than the way hire car companies deal with damage.

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

I suspect that in the longer term, people like me, who always opt to buy a car outright, will become a pretty small minority, as more and more people switch to a lease-type ownership model. 

Yes and have been in them minority  for at least last 15years --

speaking from experience it has always been "how much  a month",even when people bought cars 

 this is why so many people can run new cars --because they never buy them but just rent them . 

its only the retired that want to buy outright  ,and private buyers have been in the minority fro many many years as well

it is not the best way over a period to run a car --

the right  way--buy a new or nearly new --one run it 8 years at least ,at the end of the 3 or 4 year  finance period --keep putting  50% of the monthly payment in a "car account ",run the car from  that 

when it dies you can go buy another one with whats in there 

 

[scottishjohn]

0118 207 6997

 

Vehicle Information
BMW I3 Hatchback
135kW S 42kWh 5dr Auto
Picture for illustrative purposes only
	Personal Contract Hire Quotation - Non-maintained Rates include VAT
	Monthly Rental:	£376.15
	Initial Payment: (Equal to 3 monthly payments)	£1,128.46
	Contract Length:	36 months
	Annual Mileage:	10,000 miles
	Excess Mileage Charge: (pence per mile)	TBC
	Maintained Excess Mileage Charge: (Pence Per Mile)	TBC
	Arrangement Fee:	£234.00

[scottishjohn]

Tesla Model 3 Saloon
Standard Plus 4dr Auto
Picture for illustrative purposes only
	Personal Contract Hire Quotation - Non-maintained Rates include VAT
	Monthly Rental:	£526.22
	Initial Payment: (Equal to 3 monthly payments)	£1,578.65
	Contract Length:	36 months
	Annual Mileage:	10,000 miles
	Excess Mileage Charge: (pence per mile)	TBC
	Maintained Excess Mileage Charge: (Pence Per Mile)	TBC
	Arrangement Fee:	£234.00

 

Important Information
	•  Excess mileage charge is liable to change after a percentage over the total contract mileage. Please contact us for more details.
	•  All VAT is charged at the standard rate
	•  Click here to view our terms and conditions
	•  See our initial disclosure document

 

 

 

 

just got an up to date quote --so yes things have changed

Edited July 8, 2019 by scottishjohn

[K78]

Even Jeremy must think this sounds great ?

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, K78 said:

Even Jeremy must think this sounds great ?

 

 

 

This is me, at Tregrehan Hill Climb, around 1978/9:

 

 

and this was my normal commuting car for several years (the photo's from when I worked not far from @scottishjohn's neck of the woods):

 

 

The little i3 is way quicker off the line than either of them, though.  What's funny is the noise that the i8 makes.  It only has a 3 cylinder engine, yet for some bizarre reason BMW decided to make it sound like this:

 

 

[scottishjohn]

One of my supercharged  1.6 saxo customers  videos

 

[scottishjohn]

another one from him --he used to send me in car videos for comments on set-up etc ,as i used to race them very successfully ,anyone that knows cadwell   knows its very tight  inbits

 

[scottishjohn]

round about 260bhp@wheels   ,plenty to keep you awake with a front wheel drive and no lag like a turbo ,dives just like N/A 

not bad when std 1.6 is about 95@wheels

Edited July 8, 2019 by scottishjohn

[K78]

14 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

This is me, at Tregrehan Hill Climb, around 1978/9:

 

 

and this was my normal commuting car for several years (the photo's from when I worked not far from @scottishjohn's neck of the woods):

 

 

The little i3 is way quicker off the line than either of them, though.  What's funny is the noise that the i8 makes.  It only has a 3 cylinder engine, yet for some bizarre reason BMW decided to make it sound like this:

 

 

 

Awesome. 

 

Instant torque of electric motors is a plus. BMW even play engine sounds through the speakers in the m3/4.

 

Once my build is finished my truck will be part ex’d for a Alfa QF with carbon seats. Closest I’ll ever get to a Ferrari.