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  1. Hi all, I currently have two Willis heaters (Read more here) providing the 6kW for the slab (proving very expensive now), I am now looking to get an ASHP installed. Question is, should I go via the BUS grant or should I source a unit off ebay and either attempt a self install or get a local fitter to install? I'd like to think that the grant would now cover the simple install! Further questions: How long does it take once the installer has applied for the £7.5k voucher? I'd like to have an install completed ASAP before the temps drop and there's a significant demand for heating in the house. The setup would be fairly straight-forward, with the heat just being fed directly into the slab, so no need for cylinder etc. Previously (2019) I had a quote for a Mitsubushi 8.5kW which also included the installation only of 2 Sunamp units (previously purchased but now installed) which came to £8,000. Presume that would have been a 2 day install at max, so imagine that realistically, today's figure would be less! I expect of course to get a much inflated price back when I go back for an updated quote with the excuse being short-supply of units, price increase etc. Self-install? So the alternative is to self install (with electrician), but would like to keep the controller KISS and the unit install itself would need to be a relatively simple to install and connect. I've done all of the plumbing including the Willis heaters (except the Sunamps) so would like to think an ASHP install is within my grasp. Worst case, I'd have to rope in a local plumber who has some experience of installs - maximum of a day I would think? Any feedback gratefully received!
  2. New build originally designed around a gas boiler and UFH, flow temp are low as could be, due to 300mm pipe centres. So previous setup was, gas boiler, big buffer, mixer and pump on the manifold. The flow temp out the buffer was consistent, but filled based WC (Weather Compensation) curve. Flow temps varied between 26 and 34 degs (at -9 OAT). The heat pump is installed without a buffer, all UFH loops open, with no actuators, mixer or pump on the manifold, so as simple as it gets. Have a single thermostat, just to give a start permissive for the heating. Couple of observation 1. The min heating temperature of the heat pump is 25 degs, dT is 5.4 degs, so a return temp would be 21.5. 2. After one heat cycle at a low flow temp (26 degs), the floor doesn't cool down enough to allow to ASHP to start up again. So heat pump would not restart. That didn't work 3. At low loads heat pumps cycle, I typically have a 10 to 20 minutes run time and 45 minutes off. The recirculation pumps continues running at all times. If the heating load decreases (OAT, solar gain etc), the heat isn't transferred out the flow as quickly, so the off period of the ASHP increases. 4. To compensate for the on/off run nature of the ASHP, and to get the required heat into the floor, you need to flow at higher temperatures at low loads, than you would expect. 5. So to make up for the on/off nature I increased the flow temp to 29. The flow temp pattern through the floor is typically (8 deg day), heat pump ramps up to set temperature and when it cannot modulate to control dT the heat pump shuts down. The flow temp and return temperature stabilise down to about 24 and flow will slowly cool over over the next 40 minutes, down to about 23 and the heat pump starts. 6. Very small increments in flow temp have an impact on house temp, less than 0.5 degs change in target temp, can be felt in the house. 7. Been tracking the temp on a Shelly H&T today, temperature drift in the house is around 0.2 degs. Have tested the 3 basic modes of operation so far, operation controlled by thermostat, batch charging overnight on cheap rate, and continuous running 24/7 on straight weather compensation. So far leaving it to run all the time seems the cheapest to run and easiest to implement. Have a simple Shelly H&T set up in the hall, to record how temperature moves over time and OAT changes, this will allow fine tuning of the WC curve.
  3. Fan coil being installed in garden room to replace UFH, which really didn't work well unless at flow temperatures. Which wasn't an option with the ASHP and the main house heating demand. So Christmas eBay search led to me buying a Myson iVector MkII fan coil 1.2m wide. This unit can do heating and cooling and has a variable fan cut in temperature, so should allow me run weather compensation. Unfortunately the unit needs to placed on the opposite side of the summer house to the existing water entry point. So instead of running pipes internal, have decided to run them externally. Some photos of progress Unit wall mounted Cover installed The unit I got is a 4 pipe fan coil. This unit has a dedicated cooling and seperate heating heat exchangers. The heat transfer area of the combined heating and cooling HE's is about 50% larger than a 2 pipe fan coil. Have piped the two HE's as a single unit. I am using a Salus self balancing actuator to balance the flow rate through the fan coil. Have started the external piping using 15mm Hep2O and 25mm wall thickness insulation. The insulation to aluminium tape covered to keep mice away and UV to stop sun damage. The pipes sit on metal brackets 40mm off the ground and are galvanised banded into place.
  4. Hello all, I was just chatting to my neighbour and we got on to the subject of her ASHP. She's had it operational for about 2 or 3 years and qualified for RHI for which she is receiving her payout from Rishi & Co. We'd been talking about firewood and I asked if she needed any, she said that she wasn't allowed to have a wood-burning stove (or any alternative source of heating!) under the conditions of the RHI agreement. Does that sound right? She mentioned how much she was spending on electricity each month to run the ASHP and I almost passed out! I suggested that she should consider PV panels to help power the ASHP and again she said that under the RHI agreement she couldn't install a PV system. This seems utterly illogical to me, is my neighbour misinformed? Thank you, Paul.
  5. Further developments in ASHPs Higher output temperatures and greater efficiency achieved using new refrigerants. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67511954
  6. We have a Cool Energy InverTech Air Source Heat Pump | CE-iVT9 4.3kW-9.5kW. We have had a DC Bus Overvoltage fault come up. Running since June 2021, its our first hiccup. The result was that the pump was on but not the compressor or the fan. We managed to turn everything off and turn it all back on and it fired up as per normal. However, in case it happens again does anyone know what might have caused this to happen? Regards Marvin
  7. Hi All, We are embarking on a self-build and the ASHP was installed yesterday and we are awaiting the commissioning engineer tomorrow to turn on and start heating. I was a little alarmed by the our ASHP supplier planning to just operate the ASHP at its standard operation rather then operating a thermal cycle. From what I have read on line this is important for the concrete screed performance and any floor finishes installed later. I spoke with our tile installer and tile adhesive supplier and they have recommended the following regime which is more or less a 14 day cycle that involves, 5 days of gradual heat increase (2-3C per day) , maintain at expected operating temp for a further 4 days, before a 5 day gradual decrease in temperature. My question is with regard to the expected operating temperature, which I presume is the outflow temperature of the ASHP (45 degree), that the underfloor heating pipework's will be supplying to the screed for these 4 days. My understanding is that the thermostats will be overridden temporarily for the commissioning and the slab will be consistently heated with this 45 degree water - am I correct? If this is so then theoretically will the house be extremely warm for a few days as the slab should come close to the 45 degree temperature?
  8. Hello buildhub residents. My first post here. I'm self-building a passive house in East Anglia and I'm looking at heating, DWH and potentially cooling solutions. My question is this - a load of companies seem to manufacture units that are either multi-split of mini VRF and have A2A refrigerant inverters available with a hydrobox for DWH (that's my reading of the marketing docs, please correct me if I've misunderstood the technology) But NONE OF THEM are available in the UK it seems (I hope I'm wrong, but I've called them and nobody knows anything about these units here). Does anyone have a good sense of why they're ether not bothering with the UK market, or why they're unable to get them licensed here? Maybe something to do with the distortions created by the Boiler Upgrade Scheme? The list has most of the big guys one it: Mitsubishi PXZ series - see around page 25 of this pdf here: https://kokotasgroup.gr/entypa/pdf/FULL_PRODUCT_HEATING_WEB--281-29_6166.pdf Samsung EHS TDM Plus Climatehub - https://samsung-climatesolutions.com/en-gb/b2c/our-solutions/home/heat-pump-solutions/heating-cooling/tdm-plus.html Daikin Multi Plus - https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/product-group/air-to-air-heat-pumps/multiplus.html Panasonic Aquarea Ecoflex - https://www.aircon.panasonic.eu/IE_en/happening/aquarea-ecoflex/ LG Multi-V compact with Hydro kit - probably too big for my house, but anyway https://images.b2bmkt.lge.com/Web/LGElectronics/%7Bc5c4ca24-a96c-4aed-9cc9-97e1f6dbabf2%7D_2023_4Q_White_paper_Hydro_Kit_Low.pdf? ArgoClima iseries split - https://www.keaneenvironmental.ie/argoclima/iseries-split-pump/ Midea CirQHP- https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/midea-comes-to-ish-frankfurt-2023-with-its-latest-water-and-space-heating-solutions-301774592.html And yet - nothing available in the UK....
  9. Hi all 👋🏼, I wanted to introduce myself and our project as I anticipate I'll be in hot pursuit of the forums thoughts, opinions and experiences in the forthcoming months. We purchased a 3-bedroom 1970's bungalow in August 2022 but had some planing complications due to a parish council policy that attempted to dictate that "a bungalow must stay a bungalow". 15 months later our planning application was finally granted, albeit with some compromises. Here's a few points on what we're attempting... Replace existing roof (& ceilings) entirely, building up the walls ~80cm, adding a new roof with 1.2m increased ridge height and steeper pitch Upstairs will accomodate two bedrooms, bathroom and "breakout area" overlooking hallway void Large single-storey flat roof side and back extension out to locate 65sqm kitchen/diner Complete re-configuration of downstairs layout Complete replacement of heating system (gas will be cut off entirely) New ASHP (current thinking Valliant Arotherm Plus, one-zone, no buffer) UFH all-round on ground floor (retrofit lo-profile UFH on top of the existing slab (Wunda?), insulated/screeded in new extension). Possibly fan convectors in bed-rooms upstairs Complete rewire I would assume MVHR (current thinking is a radial system installed through new posi-joists, manufacturer TBH but will get BCF to design) New solar panels, and battery (current thinking GivEnergy to unlock Octopus Intelligent Flux) New double-glazing all round (Residence R7 probably) also 2.7m high, ~8m wide sliding doors at rear (either Corteso Cor-vision or Minima) The biggest grey-area for us at the moment is how much to focus on/invest in improving the insulation and air-tightness of the existing exterior walls. I'll raise a separate thread for this in due course. Fortunately we were able to leverage a second mortgage and keep our existing home so we don't intend to live in the place whilst the majority of the work is taking place. The properties are only 0.5 mile apart so I am hoping I'll be able to keep a close eye on the build whilst I work from home. We are also intending to do a little of the work our-selves as possible (i.e. fitting MVHR, UFH, painting & decorating, airtightness membrane?, etc). Thanks for having me and in advance for any advice, Ollie Fleet, Hampshire Plans 24 OD - Amendments Combined.pdf Concept Images Existing Images
  10. Hi all - The combined wisdom on here is unrivalled and I have picked up countless tips - ever so useful. So I thought I would pick your brains! We are still getting plans ready for the planning application. The house is going to be built into the side of a hill (with a gap of around 1.2m between the house and retaining wall.) It works out best for the views (and light) to have an upside down house with bedrooms on the ground floor and living areas on the first floor - where the front door will open out to the roadside. The light on the North/West sides is quite limited and it makes sense to put the plant and utility spaces here. Attached is an my initial thought on the layout of the plant/utility space and where to place any ducts - the plan is go for a fabric first approach which includes ensuring all the external connections go through the slab rather through the walls to reduce the cold bridging. My rational for the layout is: ASHP on the north façade - placed the un-vented hot water cylinder much further into the centre of the house so the bath/shower/washing machine are all close to minimise the hot water pipe lengths. By moving this to the Utility space I though it would then be a sensible option to have all the water centric kit (washing machine/dryer/UHC/UFH) separate from the electrical kit. Placed the inverter externally to avoid over heating (as suggested by Jeremy H) - it is not in sun light and there is a cover over as well. Is the layout sensible - any suggestions - all thoughts gratefully received. Thank you.
  11. HI all. Would anyone with some knowledge like to give me an opinion on the AHP60 ASHP. Spec attached. its in conjunction with my other post, so run this to heat a 300L UVC for 2 camping pods. the money is good, brand new 3 year warranty. It is cheaper than the Dream units on ebay. and at this cost is sort of a no brainer unless someone see's a big issue. I've taken into account that parts if not local will take an age from China, but the immersions (on the tank) will be my back up. Might be convinced to buy 2 and use for the house as well... AHP60Spec.pdf
  12. Following the Govs decision to give more time to introduce net zero. I kind of had it in my head we were to be stuck with ASHP with underfloor heating, although the installation would be hideously expensive and the usage not very much more cost effective than other heating types. It seems now we may not be stuck with one option given the extension and a longer time scale to make the changes. We are quickly sliding into our pension years and im now confused as to which system (no gas available) we should employ. Is there anywhere truthful where you can compare how economic all systems are. Ive googled and thats hopeless, one says ASHP another said Electric and ive even read that oil is!!! If I ask a plumber, of course they say the systems they supply are the best. Has anyone found any honesty?
  13. I have an ASHP all installed and working. Also have a solar thermal panel - not installed, with a full drain back system. My issue I can't install direct to cylinder without quite a bit of work, but have very easy access to a roof space and ASHP flow and return pipes. So was thinking of coupling direct into either the flow or return of the ASHP via close coupled tees. Then put some logic behind it. Think return pipe would be better? So I need to do Take solar thermal when cylinder heating and heating UFH, but not when cooling. Typical flow temp for UFH is around 30, so should get a decent yield from ST even in winter. I could even switch off in the summer. What do you think, is it feasible?
  14. Hi all, We are planning a new-build that will approach passivhaus standards, and I feel that going for the typical ASHP+cylinder+UFH is engineering and financial overkill, especially since we like to have the house around 18-19C and cooler at night. Instead I would like to have minimal electric radiators (or even just electric blankets) and something like the Mixergy iHP* to provide hot water at COP > 1. I would like to set it up so that it has two inlet/outlet paths according to external weather: If solar gain > heat loss: extract from top of vaulted glazed area and return to bottom to provide cooling If solar gain < heat loss: extract and return from/to external environment The second case is to avoid having to run the radiators to provide hot water on days with no sun, which tend to be wet and not sub-zero where we are building. Does this sound feasible? We will be getting an MVHR, but I was hoping that by having only internal/internal or external/external config we would avoid interfering with it's operation. Are there any products out there that would allow a compact solution for changing the flow path? It doesn't have to be automatic or anything, but I want to avoid a mess of flexible tubing. Cheers, Diarmid * other products are available, I just like the look of the warranty and modularity of this one.
  15. It's been a while since I was here. "Life issues"...! Been using the willis heater set up for a couple of years now, and it's proven somewhat more expensive than anticipated, partly down to the electricity price rise fiasco. So I'm now looking to replace the 2x 3kW willis heaters that I had set up feeding the manifold for 150sqm of UFH. More here on my setup: 1) Presume the feeds from ASHP will be plumbed in directly to the manifold feed and return pipes, i.e. no buffer tank? I may leave the willis heaters in-situ as a backup. Probably looking at running the temps between 30-40c for 2-3hrs per day (bit more when it's really cold). This is current setup: 2) Siting the ASHP - the closer the better, but as I'm probably looking at around a 11kW unit, these can be the 'double stacked' types like this, and rather obtrusive to have this next to my front door (closest to plant room). I could site it a bit further out (approx 9m away from entering house) out of view and lay the pipework in the french drain surrounds the whole house - If I had additional insulation to the already insulated pipework would that be an option to consider for an quicker and easier install or would the heat loss still be an issue? 3) Can't afford to buy a new ASHP, so looking to get a used/reconditioned one. What are the best places to look at apart from ebay? There are some installers who are selling older but new models that come with warranty still, but any other sources I could consider? 4) What should I look out for in a used system? Obviously need to ascertain whether it still works, why it's being sold etc. Ensure that there are no refrigerant leaks, pump works, control board works... 5) How much should I look at for an install? I'm happy to dig any trenches, get cabling in by my electrician and do any preparation work to minimise cost. Thanks in advance for your feedback/suggestions!
  16. Seen a couple of plate loading UVC's on offer for heat pumps, as opposed to a coil. So PHE and small pump taking cold water from bottom and deposits at top of cylinder after heating. One from Warmflow and the other from Mixergy. Advantages disadvantages?
  17. Spotted a Daikin heat pump cylinder - 200L for a very good price. Model EKSWHU200B3V3 Does anyone know the coil size? Or any issues driving from a 6kW (max temp 60 deg from heat pump).
  18. A pointer, please. I'm building new and I have opted for ASHP (I've seen nothing especially wonderful about ASHP, but it seems to deliver at a comparible cost to oil, and easier to get BC/SAP on board, but this is not the point). I'm in N Ireland and have 3 prices from installers that use their suppliers design service (Grant, Warmflow and another). None of the 3 can provide any detailed information on what their proposed system is, basically " in case the design is copied". I want to know a lot before i decide, from pipe size to zones, to controls and equipment, coz i get one shot at this, its expensive, and must work without me having to get a degree in Turning-On-The-Heat!!. Until this moment, I assumed the supplier was the cautious one, but as I write I realise that does not stack up because having designs with their equipment out there is good. Anyhow, has anyone else had this issue? Do I just hold a tight reign, or is there a better way to choose?
  19. Considering heating options for our renovation project. No mains gas here so was thinking about LPG as it’s clean and a cheaper installation and servicing option. Spoke to a local contractor who suggested that ASHP would be a better option in the long term. He gave a verbal estimate for fitting an 11kw Mitsubishi ASHP. £10-£12k Seems expensive to me. What do you think?
  20. I need to buy and install an ASHP to do my UFH and DHW in the next 4 weeks. Single zone, high level of airtightness (0.8) and lelevs in insulation. I had my mind set of coolenergy unit, but the return to base warranty has put me off, its madness to think I need to take it off a resend it a unit at 100kg. I'm currently looking at a valliant unit (Arotherm plus) but massively struggling with valliant selecting the unit which they said someone would come back to me in 5 days but valliant is now saying an installer will select the unit and give the price .its been over 2 weeks and no contact from a supplier/installer. City plumbing have given me a price for a 17 kW Grant Aerona unit, which I told them was oversized and then gave them the SAP calcs and they have now quoted a 6 kW unit (with strong recommendations UFH on the gf only wouldnt work - even though the SAP calcs show it) which I think is likely OK for the UFH but I'd like a slightly bigger unit for the DHW for the recharge times. It's clear city plumbing renewable team don't understand near passive houses. So likely I'll need to select the unit and manufacturer myself so what criteria shall I stick on my excel sheet? 1) Price 2) SCOP 3) Warranty 4) minimum size required? Based on UFH requirements and DHW reheat times. How do you check the reheat times? 5) what else? I have an installer lined up who is valliant approved to get the warranty but they have no preference on the manufacturer really.
  21. Here goes - It seems I under estimated the area needed for my ASHP condensate pipe to drain away into, as the condensate has been backing up recently. [Not draining away via the soakaway created as expected.] Upon inspection, I thought I could just dig a larger area but unfortunately, the area I am working with is clay based. In fact I managed to dig down a good 900mm but all I have done, is to create a clay walled well! Yes, it will no doubt take time to fill up but it is not a "long term" solution. So, one possible solution is to connect the ASHP condensate pipe to a pipe which in turn will "tap" into a nearby down-pipe / gutter system - see image. My question is this - How best to drill / create a hole in the "gutter" / "drain" to accommodate the new drainage pipe without breaking it and causing me all sorts of additional problems' As ever, your thoughts are welcome.
  22. Does anyone have experience of, or opinions about, Joule's new (in 2022) product, Modulair All-E, with GreenComfort and cylinder? It is an Exhaust Air Heat Pump supplying DWC and space heating, both via hot water to radiators and heating of air drawn into the building (with the 'Green Comfort' optional extra). So it combines DWC, space heating and MVHR in one unit - with a cost of around £7500. The target market seems to be primarily flats less than, say, 100m2. Source: https://joule.ie/modulair-all-e-product-page/ I'm aware of strong reservations on this forum (by Jeremy Harris, in particular - sad that he seems to be no longer contributing) about Exhaust AHP but this product seems to avoid the substance of those reservations since it draws external air into the building through ducting, along the lines of MVHR. As a self-builder of an almost Passive House, 77m2 on one level and almost open-plan, I'm attracted by the notion of killing three birds with one stone (DHW, space heating and ventilation). Modelling of plans by Warm consultants in Plymouth suggests a small heat load on cold days of 24Kwh over 24 hours. My main concern is around noise - the data supplied are thin and not convincing. And in the winter, the EAHP will have to circulate the greatest volume of air to extract the required heat input - the noise of which would be much less noticeable if it were an externally-sited ASHP. Any thoughts, much appreciated. Rodge
  23. I'm not quite that that bad. All I want is to not waste energy keeping our home warm/cool https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64261457
  24. The next design being tried out! Will these work? Is this the next generation? https://businessmanchester.co.uk/2022/11/03/bellway-installs-uks-first-roof-mounted-air-source-heat-pump-in-pilot-project/
  25. Further to @Temp's reply in @joe90's topic Can we keep the lights on this winter? Our ASHP has it's own main electric meter with nothing else connected. Testing over hours, it appears that my previous estimation of the standby power consumption is about right. The results for our ASHP on standby is a rate of about 82-84 watts, so total used for 24 hour standby is 1.968-2.016kWh assuming no power used for the heat protection of the ASHP. This was measured with an outside temperature no lower than 8.8C over the last 24 hours and no lower than 9.9C during the period of measurement. Bearing in mind that the ASHP compressor must be warm enough to work without causing excessive wear, and requires 12 hours of standby after the outside temp achieved rises above 5C, this may mean that we cannot turn the ASHP back on for 12 hours after a power cut! I hope every ASHP owner with the same compressor requirement is aware of the dilemma of either having no heating for 12 hours or risking excessive wear of the compressor. Marvin
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