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Part 16 - Joinery finishes


Stones

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It's been a couple of months since my last update, during which time we have (almost) finished work and moved in.  In this entry I'm going to talk about the joinery work.

 

As readers may recall, our UFH was switched on 2 weeks before Christmas, which meant there was very little activity on site until the builders came back after their Christmas fortnight.  

 

The joiners were first back, and got to work straight away laying around 105m2 of engineered oak flooring in the main living area, hall, bedrooms and upstairs study.  We opted to fully bond the floor to our concrete slab on the ground floor, and went with a simple floated floor in the upstairs study.

 

We sourced our flooring from:

 

https://www.luxuryflooringandfurnishings.co.uk/150mm-oiled-engineered-european-oak-wood-flooring-14-3mm-thick.html

 

having gone through a fairly extensive process of obtaining samples from various suppliers and matching the finish to the Osmo Oil used on our skirtings and facings. The flooring has an understated Matt finish and came in random lengths. Having heard reports of random length being code for very short lengths, I was pleasantly surprised to find a good mix of short, medium and long lengths in each pack, each pack having virtually identical contents.

 

Our flooring adhesive was supplied by the same company - Thomsit (now Ceresit) P618 Parquet flooring adhesive.  Like similar products used by other forum members, this is a flexible polymer adhesive that allows the bonded floor to move with the subfloor. The Joiners laying our flooring certainly commented on how easy it was to use compared to Sikaflex, which they had used previously. Coverage worked out at 1m2 per kg. This was a bit less than we hoped for and meant I had to buy a another tub of adhesive locally, at a significant premium to the Thomsit to keep the joiners going.

 

The adhesive was spread onto the slab with a notched trowel, and the boards pressed down firmly and pushed snuggly to the row of previously laid boards.

 

Upstairs, we used 18mm flooring and 2mm underlay so the finished floor was level with the top step of our staircase (20mm).  The boards were glued together as they were laid on top of the underlay.

 

The joiners spent just over 4 days laying just under 105m2 of flooring.  In general it has turned out very well, and the random lengths provide a more interesting (and in our view more attractive) finish.

 

PC140037.thumb.JPG.57ec9b34af1baecf3ffa0caafcf50950.JPG

 

Unfortunately, we did find after the floor had been laid, that a few of the boards hadn't bonded to the slab / lifted slightly as the next few rows of flooring were laid.  The two areas affected seem to be on the edges of where previously identified dips in the slab were filled with self leveling compound.  This really goes to show how critical it is to have a near perfectly level sub floor.  Visually of course there was nothing to see, but easily detectable when walking over the floor - a  hollow sound and a bit of give like a floating floor as opposed to the rock solid feel of the fully bonded floor.  To remedy the problem, the joiners used the approach shown on this film:

 

 

In summary, a plunge saw was used to cut the boards out and new boards inserted with sufficient adhesive, then a heavy weight placed on top (in our case buckets of sand) until the adhesive had set.

 

P2060066.thumb.JPG.a1d02f805d65d3911bd19cf637e5504c.JPG

 

Fortunately, I did have almost a pack of flooring left, and even more fortunately, the random lengths were all of a standard size so it was easy to select and replace exactly the right size board.  Hopefully this fix will stand the test of time. 

 

I have to say I'm still a bit unsure of the underfoot feeling that a bonded floor gives.  I'm still finding the experience a little alien, compared to floating floors we have had in the past. 

 

Having laid all the flooring, the joiners moved on to lining the door openings, hanging internal doors, fitting door ironmongery and all the oak facings and skirting boards.  In previous houses this phase has never taken that long, as door sets were supplied as part of the timber frame kit, and skirtings / facings were fitted very rapidly.  Oak by its nature (IMHO) demands a much greater level of attention to detail when being fitted.  Each and every mitre joint on the door facings was sanded silky smooth for a flawless join.  Skirting boards were all scribed to the flooring, being hand planed to ensure a tight fit rather than the more common 1mm to 2mm gap you see in some houses.  This really does make a difference to the final visual appearance, and although it did take the joiners longer to do this, it just one of those little details that elevates the finish from good to outstanding.

 

IMG_20170316_123941.thumb.jpg.4ff8a7dd2e2768700828c4c234068606.jpg

 

 

We opted for unfinished rather than pre-finished doors, purely so we could oil them ourselves to match the rest of the oak finishings.  Whilst they were £30 a door cheaper, I spent just under an hour per door, sanding and applying 2 coats of oil.  Add in the cost of the oil itself and you probably exceed the cost of a pre-finished door.  I'm really glad we went down this route as they are a perfect match.  Pre-finished doors would have looked fine with a varnished woodwork, but would have looked completely out of place against the oiled oak.

 

 

IMG_20170316_123848.thumb.jpg.797b1e0185f15d3c76c2fe2f07fcb5af.jpg

 

The remaining oak finishes were handrails fixed on top of the studwork balustrades - 

 

P2020065.thumb.JPG.e4666a4b4d5bb362b19cc063b2f195cf.JPG

 

and shelving and hanging rails in all of our built in bedroom cupboards / waredrobes.  

 

P1120056.thumb.JPG.7f592f95d44622322af703d36e78980e.JPG

 

Oak veneered  MDF, oiled to match our other joinery was used in the cupboards, simply to ensure a pleasant finish within.

 

Overall we're delighted with how the joinery sits against the white walls, and the quality of the finish.  It's unfortunate that a few flooring boards did not bond, but my builder, without hesitation, has rectified the problem.  

 

Next entry : Kitchen and Utility

 

 

 

 

 

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That's looking very crisp indeed.

 

Those boards that they had to break out and replace. I can only assume the new ones slotted in won't have the tongues and grooves intact, so I wonder if over time that will cause issues? I hope not.

 

Are those the doors that TP seem to have on sale at the moment?  I wish I had the cash to buy some, but don't and knowing my luck when I do, I won't be able to find such a good deal.

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Yes, you do end up loosing the tongues to be able to slot the boards back in although they are located with the remaining grooves. Time will tell but provided the board has a good bond (which it should as it was weighted when going off) I can't see why there would be a problem. I am planning to insure myself by getting another box of flooring for a rainy day, as most of what I had left over has now been used.

 

Doors came from Buildbase, but from what I can see all the BM's do a version of this door.

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The doors will stick around at the kind of money, howdens do 3 varieties of that style in oak now (3 price points). By the time you 3 coat a standard door vs 1/2 coats of oil on these the price difference isn't so great, and you've got an oak door.

 

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looking good btw...

 

Did you have oak linings as well?

Were these fitted as part of second fix?

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4 hours ago, Oz07 said:

looking good btw...

 

Did you have oak linings as well?

Were these fitted as part of second fix?

 

Yes and yes. The oak for the door linings came off the shelf in packs from Jewson. All the rest of the oak - stops, facings, skirtings and balustrade covers came from one of the bigger local contractors who carry oak in stock, and was run to the simple profile we wanted.

 

3 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

Nice post @Stones and lovely finish.

 

:)

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@Stones nice finish on that floor. I'm curious about your comment: "I have to say I'm still a bit unsure of the underfoot feeling that a bonded floor gives.  I'm still finding the experience a little alien, compared to floating floors we have had in the past." We will be installing herringbone engineered boards onto a screed floor in the New Year, and the supplier has also recommended we bond it directly to the screed apparently to improve responsiveness to the UFH and possibly for other reasons I don't understand. What does it feel like to walk on? Have you got used to it now, or do you still prefer the feel of a floated floor?

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I hate floating floors and would bond everytime , my oak flooring is bonded down and yes will respond to UFH better IMO.

 

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On 03/12/2021 at 13:00, joe90 said:

I hate floating floors and would bond everytime , my oak flooring is bonded down and yes will respond to UFH better IMO.

 

That's good to know. Given me a bit more confidence in agreeing with the builder's recommendation to bond. What bonding adhesive do you recommend? We're glueing the base of the engineered flooring to 5.5mm plywood that we are laying over the underfloor heating, so wood to wood. The flooring manufacturer has only said "We recommend applying primer before gluing the planks; Use glue that doesn’t contain water". Any thoughts? 

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9 hours ago, Dunny1234 said:

Hi Joe, would this stuff be suitable for an anhydrite screed floor with water UFH? I’m installing a engineered herringbone floor. Thanks 

Actually I don’t know what screed my builder used but from reading I believe so, others here might know better @Nickfromwales ?

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22 hours ago, Dunny1234 said:

Hi Joe, would this stuff be suitable for an anhydrite screed floor with water UFH? I’m installing a engineered herringbone floor. Thanks 

 

12 hours ago, joe90 said:

Actually I don’t know what screed my builder used but from reading I believe so, others here might know better @Nickfromwales ?

If anhydrite screed has been used, NOTHING will stick to it until the laitance has been mechanically "scrubbed" from the surface. At that point you will see the shiny semi-gloss finish reduced to a surface that looks a little like a pumice stone. That opens 'pores' in the screed which then allow such primers / adhesives / SLC's to be absorbed / key into the surface.........and then you're in business.

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